Here again part 9

[T384]

Thank you all. You all are so great to me. Sandi I read your post probably 10 times and made my friend read it as well haha

H was gone all day for the baby shower we didn't hear from him not that I expected to but I made sure to be out when he got home. We came back to the house so I could change the baby and I walked of the door to leave and H came with for fireworks. I took what Cadence said since I didn't say no to his comment earlier in the day and didn't say anything. I did t say two words to him in the car. I listened to music with the boys he made a little small talk about certain songs or something about the weather I just kind of uh huh'd him and kept about the song singing with the boys.

We enjoyed the fireworks. He was on his phone most of the time. Then told me he was talking to my friends husband. I just said cool. My friends husband knows all about it. That's who's house I was at the night H text me to tell me he was moving out. He has been wanting to talk to H over a beer but I've told him not to. He text me and asked me if he should respond to H. I told him whatever he wanted to do.

Anyway, H was talking to the boys about what we would do next year for July 4th. I was thinking to myself we will not be having family outings and was just laughing to myself that he's so crazy.

Long story short I'm getting better at my interactions. Still haven't snooped on anything since Thursday. I have to say I feel better not looking.

I'm going to drop the rope. Thinking of the cashier helped me so much tonight. It reminds me to ask no uestuons which is what I was still doing before. I would ask about work or something small just to make conversation. Now I'm just not making any conversation lol it's hard for me because I'm a talker but luckily I have the boys to talk to lol they have no choice but to interact with me

[T384]

Ugh had the book under the baby's bed he was sleeping I went in the laundry room to do laundry and he started crying while I was there. I came in my room to H looking at the cover of the book divorce remedy how to save your M. FML

All my hard work and he knows I'm reading stuff to try and save the M.

[Holding]

Oh God, T0. I'm so sorry to hear this!

What happened after he saw the book?

[cadence]

Not great, but not the end of the world, T0. The answer might be as simple as getting a "how to live a great life after divorce" type of book and - oops - leaving it out.

Don't act embarrassed or ashamed; you're simply doing your homework and you feel you owe it to the kids to feel like you did your research about the future. When you have kids together, you don't take this stuff lightly (except for the waywards). That's the type of curious scholarly person that you are, after all. And you can say that to H if he brings it up. Otherwise, ignore, and carry on.

(But this also speaks to the larger conversation about him being around and a need for privacy.)

[T384]

Sounds like a good idea Cadence. I'll grab another book and leave it sitting in the same place.

We're going out on the boat in a bit .. I heard S6 asked H to go. He said no he's going to work. That makes it easier on me because I've been avoiding him all morning.

I'm trying to let go of him literally siting here on the couch all night last night and all morning not interacting with anyone but just texting on his phone. What is the point in being here... just to say you're here. I feel like at some point I'm going to end up saying something about the phone. I also feel like he's trying to bait me with it because I haven't said anything about OW in a couple weeks.

[Sotto]

...or a 'dating after divorce' one - that'll give him something to think about.

Really though - I wouldn't worry about what he may think of what you do. It's time to let that go. It did take time for me to really get there, but I came to see that what I thought about what I did was what really mattered. What XH thinks about what I did isn't really on my radar at all and it doesn't really concern me at all because I thought his behaviour and perceptions were so skewed when we split up, I wouldn't really value his opinion anyway.

Looking back, my marriage mattered to me a lot and I tried to save it as best I could with the tools I had at that time. There is peace in knowing that. Your H may or may not be lucky enough to find that peace going forward, but it is something to be grateful for.

Enjoy your boat trip Sweetie xx

[T384]

Hi, Sotto! I chuckled at the dating after divorce, that would be pretty funny!

I am still here struggling but I think I am getting a LITTLE better each day. Yesterday I packed up all 3 boys and took them on the boat, H watched me do everything then came out to say goodbye to the boys and walked back in the house without uttering a word to me, I just said as he was walking in Bye H. I still get hurt by these actions but I think its lessening each time. I had previously asked H if he would be able to watch the baby for a bit last night as I had a study session for my exam this morning. After being on the boat and having a good time I realized, I would rather not see him tonight. So I sent a text, Hey, we are going to skip the study session and I'm just going to study alone so don't worry about having to come by. Thanks! Well we didn't get home from the boat til 10pm, I was exhausted and carried in 3 sleeping children with about 10 bags, H was on the couch. Not only was I surprised he came to the house but was raging inside that he sat on the couch watching TV while I made several trips carrying everyone and everything in. I didn't say a word. I was the happy cashier and woke the baby to give him a bath and talked with the boys while they were in the bath too about how much fun we had. H didn't say much of anything and came in to kiss the boys goodnight and again didn't acknowledge me. I didn't say goodnight to him, didn't feel I needed to.

This is where I struggle. How is being the friendly cashier VS letting him walk all over me. Part of me wants to say why the F do you come here if you dont do a DAMN thing!? I need you here IF youre going to help but if youre going to WATCH me do these things and not step up and help then it hurts me more because it angers me to see you sitting there while I do everything.

He is just so far gone, so emotionally and mentally detached from me completely. I did not ask any personal questions of him, didn't say anything about all of his bags by the front door. NOTHING, NADA, ZIP. My mom thinks that I need to make him feel important, my sweet mom always wanting to see the good in everyone. She said that H has told both her and my uncle he doesn't feel like I need him and doesn't feel appreciated or important. She is afraid if I continue to act as if and am just friendly but distant that it will further reinforce that he isn't important and I don't need him.

So I feel so torn, I don't know whether to [censored] or go blind! lol! I do know I am getting better at faking it. I don't know if me asking him nothing is making him be in a more shitty mood because his friendliness has drastically decreased in the last 2 weeks and friendly is nonexistent. Cordial isn't even really present. He looks at me with disgust at the off chance he even looks at me. I caught him looking at me when I wasn't looking when we were at the fireworks on July 4th. It's just sad really.

So I will continue the course. I thought about reaching out to him about a schedule at the end of this week but I'm afraid it will end up in a R discussion and I don't want that to happen. His complaint was that I always have to have a plan and why can't I just let things happen and see where they go. I don't mind doing that so much UNTIL the point of him being here isn't good for me. I don't believe that him coming here and staying every night is a positive sign. I truly believe h is doing it for his image so he can say to people he 'did the right thing.' So I'm still up in the air about the schedule. He CANNOT take the boys to his boss' house... my mom offered him to stay at her house and he could have the boys overnight there. I do not want the boys staying at a strangers house. Plus its 2 bedroom and her daughter lives there, I believe H is on the couch -- I haven't asked. I don't mind if he takes the boys at all but staying the night there isn't feasible at this time.

[Zues126]

He is just so far gone, so emotionally and mentally detached from me completely

He isn't treating you well so it's understandable to feel rejected.

However these aren't HIS feelings. These are YOUR feelings. Be aware of the difference.

So I will continue the course.

Good. You've been doing much better T0. The pain will diminish as you continue to grow in strength, and a large part of this is being able to walk your own path without being derailed by his.

I thought about reaching out to him about a schedule at the end of this week but I'm afraid it will end up in a R discussion and I don't want that to happen.

Outstanding.

His complaint was that I always have to have a plan and why can't I just let things happen and see where they go.

Great 180.

I don't mind doing that so much UNTIL the point of him being here isn't good for me. I don't believe that him coming here and staying every night is a positive sign. I truly believe h is doing it for his image so he can say to people he 'did the right thing.'

This is more mind reading.

Pretend there was a 50/50 chance your marriage perseveres and you rebuild a good life together if you DB your butt off, and a 50/50 chance he decides to file and never look back no matter what. Do you throw away your chance to save your family to preempt feeling taken advantage of? To me I'd be PROUD to be the kind of person that would stand by your family, and if that means that I'm taken advantage of, then good for them. At least I like myself and can look in the mirror.

Besides, I don't buy the idea that he's doing this to 'look good' at all. Not even a tiny, little bit. Seriously T0- look at all the posts on these forums. You've read them for years. WAS's lie, cheat, steal, lash out, and become abusive in every possible way. Their moral compass totally breaks. I don't think 'looking good' is on their mind because in their twisted reality anything they do is the LBS's fault. Granted there are a couple of people that go to therapy to be able to play the 'I tried' card, but I expect that they are still conflicted and the part of them that is still clinging to the idea of maintaining decent behavior is causing them to show up out of habit (like the last twitches of the decent person they were as they die).

But if your H is there, he's there because that's where he chooses to be. Not with OW. Not with his buddies. Not flaunting a new relationship on facebook. Not partying. Home with his wife and newborn baby while his relationship is as bad as it's ever been and he's not even on speaking terms.

Of course we can all focus on the pain he's causing, or what he's not doing, and minimize what he is doing. But that doesn't sound like the less critical and more appreciative T0 3.0 you're choosing to be.

Oh- and I know you're getting asked in real life and on these forums why you're trying to save this marriage. And I do agree that there are real concerns about being ready to jump into something destructive or back into a negative loop without some structure to help you guys do better. But there is a very good reason to save this marriage. One so self evident that I can't say it any more simply than this: You don't give up on a marriage.

For now though just continue to let things deescalate. I don't believe he's 'detached' emotionally, but T0, if you two can get there that is a step in the right direction. Let the dust continue to settle and calm down. Eventually the thoughts and emotional reactions will calm, and you'll see what I see- that he's choosing to be there on your couch. In some ways he has 'walked away' such as his words and his hurtful behavior, but in one very important way he hasn't walked and is actually showing some commitment- he's sitting there on your couch at night. Right now this is the best he can do, and it's a huge deal.

The situation in my marriage was very similar to yours when my W walked. We weren't speaking, we were unable to extract ourselves from a negative cycle. I was at home paying the bills and not much else. She was taking care of the kids and not much else. We were pretty stuck and defeated. I was feeling pretty defeated for sure. But I knew I didn't want my M to end, so I stuck around figuring that we'd find a way. She found an old highschool friend on facebook and the rest is history.

Try to be appreciative. We talk about detaching by reassuring newcomers that they will be ok even if their spouse leaves. But this reassurance can easily be twisted into the same rationalizations WAS's use to comfort themselves that D can be for the best, kids are 'resilient', etc. Tell that to my S13 who is getting bullied by XW's OM who he hates, and they are fighting every night and he is being sent to bed without supper, and I am in another household unable to do much to help.

Sorry, got carried away. So yes, no matter what you can be ok and your life will continue. But don't give up. Just let go and try to do your part. Faith. Patience. Belief. Gratitude. These are the pillars you need to lean on right now.

[cadence]

Hey T0 - saw you posting to others! Great job.

H watched me do everything then came out to say goodbye to the boys and walked back in the house without uttering a word to me, I just said as he was walking in Bye H.

Ugh. I know this feeling. Mine, before I moved out, could only say a robotic "hello" to me, as if it pained him to greet me. I've never heard him speak to anyone else like that. I'd just say a chipper "hi" or "hey", and it grew to annoy me so much. Oh, if he were to act like a human being to me I'd fall all over myself chasing him or something? Yeah, get over yourself, dude.

Not only was I surprised he came to the house but was raging inside that he sat on the couch watching TV while I made several trips carrying everyone and everything in.

Yup. When I moved out, I and my 70 year old mother carried everything. I had movers for the furniture and really heavy things, but he didn't lift a finger.

I'm still not clear why he hated me so much. Of course, now, he tells people that we just grew apart. Oopsie! Yes, that's why we're not speaking, you have no idea where I live, and why you are in dire financial straits due to your own choices. Yup, grew apart. Such a shame.

How is being the friendly cashier VS letting him walk all over me.

Because you are choosing to act and not REact. You're not going to let Moody McSelfish impact your day. Plus, we've already discussed how he WANTS to bait you into reacting to him or scolding him or telling him he's immature, because that gives him proof he's doing the right thing. So you are not reacting, no matter what. You are stable, mature, and enjoying life and you're not going to take his bait.

I need you here IF youre going to help but if youre going to WATCH me do these things and not step up and help then it hurts me more because it angers me to see you sitting there while I do everything.

I know how obnoxious it is, T0, but you're looking to him to be in the role you've always known him in. He is making a statement by doing this, and boy oh boy is he hoping you'll shout the above at him. Don't. He's playing the short game but you're playing the long game. He may get momentary satisfaction, but you're showing him he can't impact you like he used to and you are a strong woman who won't let nonsense ruffle your feathers.

My mom thinks that I need to make him feel important, my sweet mom always wanting to see the good in everyone. She said that H has told both her and my uncle he doesn't feel like I need him and doesn't feel appreciated or important. She is afraid if I continue to act as if and am just friendly but distant that it will further reinforce that he isn't important and I don't need him.

Your mom is nervous for you and wants you to be happy. Were you to do what she told you, you'd be pursuing him. He does not want you to pursue him - he will get angrier, more petty, and distance himself more if you were to pursue him.

Your H is a WH, not a WAH. Reread Sandi's reply to you about the difference, and why you cannot do things like your mother is suggesting.

Your mom is sweet, but she feels powerless, just like you sometimes do.

I do know I am getting better at faking it. I don't know if me asking him nothing is making him be in a more shitty mood because his friendliness has drastically decreased in the last 2 weeks and friendly is nonexistent. Cordial isn't even really present. He looks at me with disgust at the off chance he even looks at me. I caught him looking at me when I wasn't looking when we were at the fireworks on July 4th. It's just sad really.

The only interaction this man wants with you right now is a fight. He says he doesn't want that, but his actions betray him, don't they? He wants you to freak out and yell and cry and make him feel better about leaving. But you are smart, and you know the best thing you can do for yourself is give him nothing to work with. Let him doubt himself when you are showing him that you know you have value, with or without him. That's attractive, and he hates that you can do it. So keep doing it

I saw similar to what you are describing and it is so incredibly bizarre, isn't it? H used to watch me. If we were in the same room together, but not talking (I might make small talk here and there) he'd clear his throat over and over and over again. It was a very clear "Why aren't you noticing me here and why aren't you trying to talk to me?" Yeah, no thanks. Before I moved out, I wore a new outfit he hadn't seen before, did my hair a way I never did it, and had a friend on standby texting me multiple messages. So he got to see my phone ringing with notifications and me picking it up and laughing/smiling at the contents, and then I left and didn't come back until late.

I'm not sure that did anything for me, but it made me feel pretty great.

I thought about reaching out to him about a schedule at the end of this week but I'm afraid it will end up in a R discussion and I don't want that to happen.

You are acting, not REacting, remember T0? If you're not bringing up R stuff, it means he would be, and you can say "You know, I really don't want to talk about that." and stop the conversation. You aren't powerless to his whims. Just look at what you've already accomplished!

His complaint was that I always have to have a plan and why can't I just let things happen and see where they go.

<incredulous look on face> "H, you left. A parenting schedule is what separated and divorced parents have. What you're talking about is bygones and I'd rather not go there. Now, here is what I'm thinking for the schedule..."

T0, the theme I see in all of your confusion is that you haven't accepted that your M as it was is over. You have't dropped the rope. I think you're creating these doubts because of things he said when you were still trying to save the M. Grieve the loss if you need to, but he's gone. It doesn't mean you can't work on a new M in the future, but the one you had is gone.

[skyhigh]

Cadence, I loved that post.
TO, acting instead of reacting is a must by doing that you are regaining control of your life and removing from him the major tool he was using against you, making you react to justify his behavior/actions. He knows he will be judged by others if he leaves you with 3 kids, his image will be tarnished so he needs "examples" of how terrible his life was with you, by creating those fights he can use them to support his choices with him in the role of the poor guy who couldn't take it anymore.
I believe in you. You are starting to change, to be more in control.
Go TO.