Here again part 9

[T384]

Hey Sandi, I must have missed your previous post too because we posted at the same time.

So my questions are -- what does that look like. I know you're probably sick of hearing it but until I am actually detached it is going to be faking it til I make it. I struggle with coming off as a bitch VS lovingly distancing. I know I will get to the point where I don't analyze every interaction and situation BUT I'm not there at this moment.

So as it is I don't call or text. The only text I initiated was regarding the baby's Dr appointment. Other then that no communication on my end. When he texts I wait an hour to respond normally and only respond if it's kid or bill related.

As far as him coming here -- I started saying hi and I've made a point to head out and let him be with the kids. What the hell else am I supposed to do? I know to ask nothing of him his life or his plans BUT in the same sense I want some consistency for the kids.

I will bring up a schedule in the near future probably the next week or two just not right this minute.

But how does he feel I'm moving on from him when we're still around. I'm not going away this weekend with the boys I have a test Monday but am planning a vacation away for us. We will probably go on the boat Sunday. IWILLnot be inviting H. But how do I formulate a response if he asks about joining us for something this weekend? Not saying he will --- but on the off chance he does. He already told me he had a baby shower for his boss daughter so he won't be around Saturday so I don't have to worry about that.

Anyway I'm just wondering what my interactions look like while I'm faking my detachment. What do my actions look like?

Also-- is he wayward??? I don't know? I'm not sure of an active A although the fact that he's done this before and behaves similarly -- if it walks like a duck quacks like a duck then ...


I didn't mind so much having him around us all weekend .. it is hard for me to see that we can all have fun together and be happy together as a family and he still chooses to live separately and has this new 'work family' just like last time. So allowing him to do things as a family I'm not sure. If there's OW I imagine it causes issue there and it can remind him of who I am having fun and being relaxed BUT it also hurts my heart.

I'm making some strides... haven't checked the phone bill. MIL told me he and the nasty women she had text him to reach out and 'help' are still talking a lot. MIL talks to that woman often and really thinks she's trying to 'help'. I don't say much to MIL. About the situation or about the woman in general because of them being friends I don't want anything being shared.

I had a good time last night. The physician I met with presented me with a potential job opportunity next year. It would be amazing and it's insane Monet that I never imagined making but it's an hour commute which I am trying to get away from. But no weekends no holidays no on call no nights and in the PICU which is where I'm at and what I know and love. She's a good friend and was a good friend last time H and I went through this. We spent a little time talking about it last night and she's one of the only people in my life that supports what I want. And doesn't tell me to give up if that's not what I want. She just wants the boys and I to be happy.

Anyway sorry I'm rambling. I'm always posting on my phone and it's hard to keep all my ideas thoughts and responses concise.

I guess I just really need help with my behavior my actions and my words while I'm faking it. As time progresses I know it will become natural and I won't need so much. Advice but until I get there here I am

[cadence]

But how does he feel I'm moving on from him when we're still around.

Worry less about what he thinks and more about what you think. That's what you're being told over and over, but you still want to spend time mind-reading, with an assumption that this could turn around quickly if you just new the "right" thing to do. But you also know, logically, that's not correct. So it's a matter of your logic overruling your emotions, and learning to self-soothe.

How do you feel about him being around despite having left? Spend some time on that one, instead.

I WILLnot be inviting H. But how do I formulate a response if he asks about joining us for something this weekend?

What would a strong emotionally-stable woman in your situation do?

She'd probably be straightforward, realistic, but not biting in her response.

Something like "Look, H. You made a decision to leave, and I'm starting to feel a little frustrated that you also seem to want to keep participating in family events that you'd find fun. I don't want anger or acrimony between us, but the togetherness you're asking for is becoming too much for me. I think it would be best if you didn't go with us."

Make sense? Straightforward, honest, prioritizing oneself instead of the one who walked away, and not shielding him from consequences of his choices. You didn't invite him and there was a reason for that. It's okay to tell him that reason, and the benefit of your straightforward reply is that it's clear that you are prioritizing your feelings above his.

And making the explanation about you means you can still invite him if there are events where you feel strong enough for him to attend. If he asks why, you can just say "I invited you because I think it would be fun."

I don't say much to MIL. About the situation or about the woman in general because of them being friends I don't want anything being shared.

Great! The more you try to control other people, the more you're falling back into bad habits. You are recognizing that the way you limit the information flow is to focus on yourself and your actions.

Let the MIL friend/H discussion wear itself out. If she's awful, the awfulness will become very apparent to H if you step out and let it happen. Time is your friend here.

The physician sounds like a lovely person and friend. The job offer sounds great, despite the commute.

[T384]

Hi Cadence,

Why am I afraid to say those things to H?

Why am I afraid to piss him off and push him away further? Part of me believe it's because I'm hoping he's questioning his decision and that me pushing him away will push him further to D.

I don't know why I'm so scared to say H you left me, I really don't think these family functions are something that I should be doing and it is confusing for the boys.

I've also been thinking about saying something to him about staying the night. Like H, you staying here isn't working out. It's confusing the boys and they are left with uncertainty of which nights you will be coming by and which ones you won't so I think it's best for everyone if that stops.

That's not exactly what I will say but it's what I'm playing around with.

Last night H came by. I said hi and hung around for a bit then got dressed and went to the gym at 9. Before I left I said H is there a specific time you need to leave so I am plan to be back? He said I can stay the night if you want. I said no that's okay you don't need to just text me when you need to get going and I'll head home. He never text so I came home at 1030 we didn't ecahcnge any words and he went to the couch. I realized he was staying the night so I brought the baby out and said he's here to kiss you goodnight he said I already did earlie. I just said okay goodnight and walked back to my room. This morning his friend came over and he left without saying goodbye. So the boys and I are going to be gone before he gets back. He has his 'baby shower' to go to anyway. I'm taking the boys to see fireworks tonight with some friends also.

I have super mixed emotions about being around him since he's left. We've seen each other pretty much everyday with the exception of a few but we barely talk. I feel so AWKWARD around him. He feels like a complete stranger to me. I feel uncomfortable around him. Like I don't know what to say or do. I feel like I'm being judged. But as I see him it gets less hard to be around him from an emotional sense like yes I love him and see the man I love but he's not that man and being around him reminds me of that more. If that makes sense.

Anyway I'm afraid to say anything. I hope I can suck it up say it and move past that fear. My parents want me to just leave everything as it is so he continues to financially provide as he is. They're scared for me that he will stop paying like last time when I stood up to him. I'm not working and he pays all the bills as of right now. So I'm in a difficult situation until next year.

[JujuB]

Hi TO324

You are getting such great advice. And your feelings of wanting him back are normal for right now. I have heard it said, that it might not necessarily be the WS that is in the fog, but the LBS that is in one after BD. All of our thoughts are geared around the WS. But why? They are not prizes.

Would you ever date a man that cheated on his wife with small kids? Would you ever date a man that left his wife when she was almost due? WS are showing us who they are through their actions. And yes. You can believe them.

I think a lot of us enter this fog, because its outside of our belief patterns and perspectives to fathom such disloyalty and break in commitment. We try to make excuses for their behaviors. He/She was depressed, an addict, entering a MLC, had a bad child hood, I (LBS) was awful and busy and sick and negligent, etc, etc. I think the truth is that you have some pretty selfish people out there that simply cant handle discomfort. And unfortunatly, its not always easy to recognize when things are going good.


"My H was someone I could count on WHEN things were good."

Yes, he sounds like a fair weathered friend. But is a fair weathered friend the type of person you want as a partner in life? Lets say you won millions of dollars in the lottery and You discovered this magic fountain that made you 5 years younger and made you look like a super model. And your ex came crawling back to you. Would you take him back, knowing that he can only be with you when things are good? When life is at its best?

Honestly, right now like everyone else is saying you need to get out of the fog and step away from him. Do whats in your best interest without any concern for him. Its exactly what he is doing. And in the future you will respect yourself for it.

[Train]

Through every sentence of that ^^^, I read fear. If I'm sensing it, your H is definitely sensing it. And he's eating it up.

You have every reason to be fearful, but you also have every reason to put that fear behind you and stand with your back straight, knowing you will be okay. You are smart, you are strong and you are capable.

Do not be afraid that you standing up for yourself will push H further away. THAT is your mind playing tricks on you. Ask ANY man - in fact, go ahead: go around and ask any man on these boards - and I bet they'd tell you that there's nothing more attractive than a self-confident, self-assured woman. You see, T, that's what makes the OW so attractive to waywards. They act the complete opposite of how LBSs do.

Take a look at one of cadence's suggestions for what to tell H:

"Look, H. You made a decision to leave, and I'm starting to feel a little frustrated that you also seem to want to keep participating in family events that you'd find fun. I don't want anger or acrimony between us, but the togetherness you're asking for is becoming too much for me. I think it would be best if you didn't go with us."

Now, take a look at what you're pondering saying:

H, you staying here isn't working out. It's confusing the boys and they are left with uncertainty of which nights you will be coming by and which ones you won't so I think it's best for everyone if that stops.

I know you said you wouldn't say that exactly, but can you see the difference(s) in those two ^^^ prospective responses? This isn't a rhetorical question. Look them over and get back with me on whether you see any differences and what they are.

[T384]

The response is more about the boys then me?

I know I'm operating out of fear.... mostly financial and fear of pushing him away. But more so not wanting anything to be worse than it already is. I AM ready for a change I just have to be strategic so that he continues to give me money last time he cut me off completely. The L I met with said it can take a miniumim of 90-120 days for emergency support so he could go that long without giving me a penny which he did last time. .

He just left for the baby shower. I almost lost it on him spending an hour in the shower shaving himself and wearing new clothes. It's so disrespectful. He said when he left I'll text you later I'll come to the fireworks with you guys. I just said okay. But I think this is the perfect opportunity to have him NOT come. He's going out with whomever doing whatever he wants then coming for family time. I'm tired of sitting here like a weak woman like I'm just graced by his presence when he decides it's convenient for him to be around us.

How do I make that happen?

[cadence]

T0, it seems to me like you're trying to honor your instincts and the advice you're getting all at the same time, but they don't line up. And that's the struggle you're having and why you're having trouble grasping and accepting the advice you're receiving.

With every relationship ending, the person who didn't want it to end has their heart screaming at them with certain ways to make it stop. Unfortunately for those in that situation, our hearts are total morons.

We have evidence on what will make a WH or WAH question his decision, and we know it is unlikely to happen quickly. And those things tend to the exact opposite of what our moron heart is screaming at us to do. Those outside the situation are not confused about our path to best accomplish our goals, because our moron hearts can't type or call them.

That's part of the reason I've been urging you to start advising others. So that you can see their confusion, and what their idiot hearts are telling them to do versus what would actually be helpful for them in accomplishing their goals. I think your confusion would lessen if you'd take the step to help others. Just as you receive advice and benefit from it, others could be helped by your words. So it's also got the benefit of volunteerism, and a larger purpose outside of yourself.

We've told you again and again that H is not going to reverse course quickly (and if he does, it's not something to be trusted) and to start thinking of yourself. I believe your heart is reading this and telling you not to do that, and just love him more, and draw him closer, and bring the baby to him, and and and and.

But your heart, like my heart, is an idiot. (Sorry, hearts. You're good in other ways, but you are quite challenged after BD.)

I also still see very clear patterns with you with anxiety, insecurity, and the feeling of not being enough without H. I wonder if you've thought about IC for yourself, because these aren't things that are permanent to your character, and they aren't things that cannot be overcome.

[JujuB]

"How do I make that happen?"

By remembering who you are:

An incredible mom, a great student (how many people could get through an NP program with young children, while pregnant and with the emotional stress you have been under?) and a loyal and honest wife that was truly dedicated to her family and partner.

By reminding yourself that you have your youth, your health, and a great family. Plus a newborn!!!

By reminding yourself that You have it all. Any woman that would go for him, has some pretty bad issues and in no way will ever compare to you. Trust me. This is his loss. Not yours. Time will make this more clear.

[cadence]

But more so not wanting anything to be worse than it already is.

Hi T0's heart! I'm sorry for calling you dumb, but like all hearts in a state of heartbreak, you kind of are. Your strength is at other times.

T0 is having trouble applying advice she's receiving, because you're telling her it will make it worse. But you're an idiot, T0's heart. Stop whispering to her that you know what you're doing - you really don't. Every time she follows your advice, it accomplishes the opposite of what she wants for herself.

When she's stronger, and is less heartbroken, she can start listening to you again. But for now, please butt out and stop torturing the poor woman.

He just left for the baby shower. I almost lost it on him spending an hour in the shower shaving himself and wearing new clothes. It's so disrespectful.

No, T0, it's not. He's not accountable to you any longer, and these emotions are you still seeing him as accountable to you. By his own choice, he's left that position.

You haven't set a boundary for him and he's still coming to her home. He's going to do what he's going to do in that situation. I think it's better to realize that you're mad at yourself for allowing your WH to primp in your bathroom because you haven't wanted to set some healthy boundaries yet.

You are struggling with him being there. Instead of torturing yourself, realize that this is a sign that it's time for a boundary, because you don't need this emotional turmoil. It's okay if you're not strong enough to handle him being there.

He said when he left I'll text you later I'll come to the fireworks with you guys. I just said okay. But I think this is the perfect opportunity to have him NOT come.

I'm not sure. You already said "okay". If you'd reacted in the moment with a "Actually, I'm not sure about that", then yes, this would be a great place for boundaries.

Also...

He's going out with whomever doing whatever he wants then coming for family time. I'm tired of sitting here like a weak woman like I'm just graced by his presence when he decides it's convenient for him to be around us.

You are angry and want to hurt him. That's not a good time to set a boundary, because this intention is going to come across.

When you set the boundary, it needs to be unemotional and it needs to be about you. Perhaps others think you could still do it with this instance, but I'm not sure it's time yet given you already said otherwise and you're feeling emotional and are liable to act out against your own self-interests...

[dale165]

Hey T0,

We are the same age with a somewhat similar story. As a man I wanted to tell you what happened to me and a viewpoint from your husband.

I was a walk away husband in a sense. Not physically, but I checked out of life in general. Didn't care about much of anything for some reason. I gained 30 lbs, insecure, the whole 9 yards. My wife tried helping but was more nagging than anything. The more she said do this, the more I did the other. I got to a point where I just flat out didn't do what she said bc to me it was complaining. Then one day she started going to the gym (she's not athletic at all so it surprised me). Next thing you know, she's going like everyday and getting sexy as all get out. She started dressing differently. I could see the confidence in her, before she didn't have much confidence at all. I started noticing this but didn't say anything. Then it began driving me crazy, especially because she never asked me if I noticed. I'm thinking, man I want in, I don't want to be left in the dust. She basically divorce busted me! Then she left with another guy. That part is not very meaningful to the story but its why I'm here. The point is that she became more sexy, extremely confident, and started living life. I noticed big time and got scared. So maybe you can do what my wife did, I'd bet your husband would start to notice and get scared as I did.

Now I'm doing that to her and she's beginning to notice with a few Jerry Springer moments sprinkled in lol. Big cat and mouse game right now.

Just saying I would bet you can do that too and I would bet it would work. I mentioned the Jerry Springer moments so be prepared for those bc they are probably coming. When they come just dust yourself off and keep going, their is light at the end of the tunnel.