Wife moved to parents on opposite coast #4

[Cali08]

The idea that she is trying to sort out what she wants is funny to me since we are in a marriage and in this together and decisions should be made together or at the very least discussed together.

That is in a healthy marriage. You seem to keep getting that mixed up with the sitch you're in now, which is a quickly deteriorating marriage. This is a completely different situation, mostly driven by the WAS. Legally it only takes one to divorce, it is rarely a team effort.

I know my personality well and have done a professional personalty profile before, so I am well aware of how to listen. The issue is getting her to talk.

You claim you know how to listen, but what I see you doing here is just getting super defensive. I've seen several others mention it to you as well. You always deny it, which in itself is a form of not listening, because you are dismissing all the advice you're given unless it matches up with your opinion. I wish you could step out of your shoes and read the things you write from someone else's perspective. Someone posted a blurb the other day that was awesome, I can't remember who, Ginger maybe, but she said "Listen to understand, don't listen to respond". You are verrrrry guilty of the latter. Hey I get it, I was that way too. I'm a lot better at listening now, and it has made my relationships much stronger.

but here it is and please let me know what I absolutely shouldn't say

Well, first of all I wouldn't read anything to her. Because if you're sitting there with her reading a letter to her, it just doesn't look/ sound genuine. If you want to say those things to her then memorize them. Second, again this is supposed to be about you LISTENING to her, not just preaching to her (no matter how well-intentioned). So if you're going to have a talk, then plan on doing a lot of listening and validating. Did you read the validation thread? That's what I thought. Go read it.

I have read a lot about validation and not just on here, so no it's not what you thought....

[Cali08]

I’m not here to question your decision and I accept it. I’m here so we can be face to face and you can see me telling you how I feel and I wanted to see you because you are all that is important to me! N, you were the best choice I have ever made in my life and I feel extremely sorry for us both because this will be the biggest mistake for us both, but I accept it and I will step aside for her new life.

I havent read everything, but I wanted to share with you the 'mantra' that I got from my DB coach.



"I dont agree that divorce is the solution to our problems, but I love and respect you enough to accept it if that is what you choose."

(I may have gotten the end a little wrong. Sorry!)

Focus on these words as opposed to telling her she is making a mistake, I think.

Good point and I have seen it before.

[Cali08]

I need to start by saying that I think this is a bad idea, but not going to harp on that. Just want to say that a lot of this is better shown than said, but I realize it’s difficult with you two being so far apart.

Here are a couple of suggestions:

I know you feel that I never put you first, but you were always first in my mind and I would do anything for you.

Never use “but” when validating feelings, “I know you feel that I never put you first, and I understand how much feeling that way must of hurt you”

I wish I would have moved to the East Coast from the start. I wish I would have trained less and went to the gym less like I am now. I wish I would have planned to go on dates with you every week. I should have talked to you about how our weeks would play out and made time for us.

I’ve realized that I was caught up in my own activities and failed to include you in them, or find new activities that we could do together. Often times I got caught up in reaching a destination, and I now realize that I was missing out on the Journey with you.

These were simple changes I should have made from the get go. I want you to know I was getting there and realizing this as our marriage declined, which I refused to believe. I just couldn’t imagine our love for each other could end, especially in the way it is. I wanted nothing more than to live this life and explore the world with you. I wanted so badly to be home with you and not be on the road working anymore. I felt trapped in my job and I still do. I felt bad every time you brought up the fact that I went away for work, but I needed to be able to provide. This was something I believed was a major part of a marriage, but I now know that it is a part of it, but not everything.
I had the strongest urge to provide for you and I wanted us to have the best life together. I wanted to be able to provide the life were we could travel and see things together.

There are an awful lot of I's in this...

My communication skills were not what they needed to be and I had to learn and I still had a long way to go. I have made leaps in my understanding of this through all of our time away from each other. I was blind to a lot of things, yes I know you told me things, but I couldn’t see how I needed to see it. I wanted to be able to share things with you, but it was something I have never done with anyone and it was hard for me to do, but I see the error in this and wish I could have just opened my mouth and talked to you.

I’ve thought a lot about things you have said in the past, trying to tell me how you felt, and why I didn’t recognize it when you were reaching out to me. I have spent a lot of time reflecting, I’ve realized that my ability to communicate with you about your feelings, and understand that you were trying to reach out to me, was been very limited. I’ve been reading books on communication, and am amazed at what I’ve been able to learn in such a short time, and am continuing to improve my communication skills.

I also feel that you believe our different backgrounds were an issue, but it isn’t.

Ok, flat out telling her she is wrong is not going to help at all.

I am a man of determination and know what I need to do is clear and the changes I have made are real. It has nothing to do with me being someone I am not, but it’s about being a better version of myself. I make these changes for myself now.

You have to show this, you cannot just tell her, she won’t believe it anyway. Besides, if it’s for yourself, why even tell her?

By taking a stand to defy the odds, defy my own insecurities, and the conventional wisdom that has failed me so miserably. I believe, “sometimes we make the right decision, and sometimes we have to make the decision right”... To genuinely create change in my life, rescue this relationship, and turn it around – requires me to articulate the underlying problem that’s causing the friction. It’s about looking at the assets and the liabilities... basically the things that work well and the things that may not work so well.

If you’re going to do this, it needs to be authentic, real and from the heart… Do you normally speak this way?

What I hope u will do is focus on our positive qualities, even if u got to turn back the clock in your mind and remembering the early stages of our relationship – remembering again the very things that attracted and inspired admiration in one another. Maybe it was something physical, or maybe it had to do with ones personality or behavior. Whatever it was, there was something that caused you to reach out to me and in turn allow me to reach out to you.

In DB, your job is to show her that person, not ask her to remember them.

Can you tell me what you being first would look like? I want to know as best you can tell me so I know what my mistakes are and I won’t repeat them. What did you mean when you would text me that you were thinking about me? What did you expect out of me when telling me this?

Again, you need to be that person, not ask her to tell you how to be that person. Look, if you can’t do it without her asking, why would she find that attractive, and why would you want to go through life doing everything another person tells you.

Great points! The things on the very bottom were more of questions to and how I would go about the letter. I just copied and pasted everything. Some of it wasn't necessarily all of my writing and I type them out so it would get my mind working.

[Cali08]

Okay so you were tired when you wrote this. So I know you are not bound and determined to write or say all this...please do not write it, and certainly do not then read it to her.

I see this as just a letter to persuade someone that you are right and what they are doing is wrong/mistaken, and or based on inaccurate information -all of which is a form of argument.

I thought you just wanted to tell her how you feel & and to own your part. IF so, apologize for your mistakes and say if you had it all to do again, there are lots of things you'd do differently.


Most of this reads like you telling her your thoughts ("I know..." is in this a lot, and how she misunderstood your intentions.)

These are a bunch of tired jumbled thoughts, but here it is and please let me know what I absolutely shouldn't say. I lot of this is geared directly towards what she text my buddies wife I few days ago.

understood. But she already wanted to file then, so I'm not sure the intelligence and data gathered, is valuable.

-


I know I said I was going to write you a long time ago and I have many times. Nothing ever seemed to be good enough or really making me feel like it properly expressed how I feel about you.

totally unecessary^^^^

I’m not here to question your decision and I accept it.

if you accepted it, this letter would be a paragraph or two. Don't undermine your own words with yet more words.


I’m here so we can be face to face and you can see me telling you how I feel and I wanted to see you because you are all that is important to me!

I'm going to slash through the parts that are argumentative or, unnecessary, or just about your wants. No offense, Cali.

Natalie you were the best choice I have ever made in my life and I feel extremely sorry for us both because this will be the biggest mistake for us both, but I accept it and I will step aside for her new life. Looking back at how we started out and I can’t help but smile. We are such a good match and

I cherished all of our time together. Somewhere along the way I lost sight of things of focused on things that ultimately didn’t matter and I see that now. I loved everything about you. You were the most beautiful woman I had ever seen. I had said this before and it is still true to this day. The more I looked at you the more beautiful you became.


you refer to her looks more than any other aspect that you "love" about her. It's not a trusted aspect b/c she will age like all of us do. Plus it sounds superficial. Plus the "somewhere along the way I lost sight of..." is so vague I can't even tell what you are saying would be specifically different.

You have to tell her what you love about her that is HER and that will last. Not her looks or her body or something she can no longer do or be.

My passion for you isn’t lost and never has been. I was afraid of the things happening to you and thought so much about your health that I was scared to make love to you. I hated seeing you hurt more than anything and it was constantly on my mind.

^^^^*Wish I had shown this more.**

I know you feel that I never put you first, but you were always first in my mind and I would do anything for you. I wish I would have *had* moved to the East Coast from the start. I wish I would have *had* trained less and went to the gym less like I am now.


I wish I would have *had* ((Cali - this is a grammar thing that makes me nuts, sorry))

planned to go on dates with you every week. I should have talked to you about how our weeks would play out and made time for us. These were simple changes I should have made from the get go. I want you to know I was getting there and realizing this as our marriage declined, which I refused to believe. I just couldn’t imagine our love for each other could end, especially in the way it is.

I wanted nothing more than to live this life and explore the world with you. I wanted so badly to be home with you and not be on the road working anymore. I felt trapped in my job and I still do. I felt bad every time you brought up the fact that I went away for work, but I needed to be able to provide. This was something I believed was a major part of a marriage, but I now know that it is a part of it, but not everything.

**Cali ^^ this is you saying you are "mostly right", that you are still trapped by your job so, & a few date nights is what you guys need. Admit you felt trapped by your job and are changing that. Period.


I had the strongest urge to provide for you and I wanted us to have the best life together. I wanted to be able to provide the life were we could travel and see things together. I know that we went to see my family in Washington many times and I never meant for that to be more important than seeing your family. I love your family and I really wanted to have the closeness with them that we have with my family. It’s important to me that we have a close family on both sides that I have known growing up. Family means everything and you were the start of mine. I know you think that I didn’t want to have kids, but that has never been further from the truth.

^^^this is all about you and what you wanted and how you "know" what she thinks/feels, how mistaken she is, etc.

I looked forward to starting a family with you when you were ready. I really did feel that it was up to you when we would start that family and every time you changed your mind about it made me feel like I should put less and less pressure on you about it. This was my fault for not talking to you about this.

"and 'every time you changed your mind it made me feel like..." Cali, come on...

My communication skills were not what they needed to be and I had to learn and I still had a long way to go. I have made leaps in my understanding of this through all of our time away from each other. I was blind to a lot of things, yes I know you told me things, but I couldn’t see how I needed to see it. I wanted to be able to share things with you, but it was something I have never done with anyone and it was hard for me to do, but I see the error in this and wish I could have just opened my mouth and talked to you.

This is also something that I have learned to do and what I am doing now. I was stubborn and realize now that how stubborn I was being. I wish I would have listen more clearly to your love languages. I know now how I needed to love and show you love so clearly that it hurts me to know how I went about loving you.


Cali, Just say what you ^^^mean. Don't make it about your pain, in not loving her well.


I also feel that you believe our different backgrounds were an issue, but it isn’t.

Cali, this^^ translates to "w, I know your thoughts and here is another mistaken belief you have^^^..."


I want to learn about how you grew up and I know how fun it could be for me to meet your friends, family and learn of your past experiences. I love the differences we had and I feel that it made us special as a couple. You were awesome in learning about my background and I got caught up in loving showing you mine so much that I wasn’t thinking about how much you wanted to share yours.

if she brings up how you only wanted to show her your side of the family, admit you were selfish and stop putting a good spin on it. Own it with a sentence and move on.



I also wanted you to know how much I always appreciated how you would get all dressed up for me when I returned home from work and I was never able to express it correctly to you because I was stubborn. You’re the most beautiful woman I have ever laid eyes on and I was absolutely winning the jackpot when you agreed to marry me!

okay so are you saying she needed words of affirmation and you wouldn't give them to her? If so, is that really stubbornness on your part?

Seems like It's withholding and you have to dig deep to figure out why you'd refrain from giving her something you knew she needed'

did you think she'd take you for granted or you'd be 'Spoiling" her or she did not deserve in or what? B/c words of affirmation are the easiest love language to give and yet often the most lacking. I was guilty of with holding them in my resentful years of h's early medical career. Long story, but I learned a lesson for sure. Rewarding our spouses is so much more effective than holding back.

Also - with the beauty emphasis, which is thus far the only quality of hers I've seen you list, Add something like how thoughtful it was of her to show you your value to her.


I am a man of determination and know what I need to do is clear and the changes I have made are real.

It has nothing to do with me being someone I am not, but it’s about being a better version of myself. I make these changes for myself now, but wish I could have learned to do them sooner.

We have been through a lot together, which I always cherished and I had hoped we would go through much more. I don’t want our old relationship back. I want a new one, a happier one, one we grow old together in our rocking chairs. The things I have learned and the changes I have made from this are real and rather they will be in a relationship with you or not they will make me a better person.


I have learnt a lot about myself these last few months. I believe that from intense complexities, simplicity and understanding can be born. The complexity of losing you, has taken me back to the simplicity of being the man you loved.

this^^ is speech making for a college paper. It's not emotional or authentic sounding.


That said, those things we believe in and more importantly the very things that touch our hearts are the things we should fight, change and strive for! I have reached down to the core and found that hidden hunger for excellence that has lurked inside of me, now it’s time to let it surface.

WTF?

By taking a stand to defy the odds, defy my own insecurities, and the conventional wisdom that has failed me so miserably. I believe, “sometimes we make the right decision, and sometimes we have to make the decision right”... To genuinely create change in my life, rescue this relationship, and turn it around – requires me to articulate the underlying problem that’s causing the friction. It’s about looking at the assets and the liabilities... basically the things that work well and the things that may not work so well.

I used to think you didn’t always talk to me? But “I guess the real question is, why won’t I hear you” I became rigid and forgot how to relate to you in a way that works, for which I’m sorry for.

this can stay^^^

I know you'll find it hard to believe me if I tell you how much you mean to me. I could hardly understand the immense ways in which I feel for you, knowing how to endure those long sleepless nights just thinking only of you. I've never been like this before.

I just don't know how to pour out my feelings for you. I try but sometimes I believe I am making a complete fool out of myself which seems to be the norm when it comes to the affairs of the heart. I wanted to find the perfect words to make you realize how much I need you and love you, but words continue to elude me, what would they be? Maybe something poetic? I'm sure it should be heartfelt and out of the ordinary. I'm afraid it's no use; every time I look at you, the words came out the same I simply love and adore you!


Neither you nor me are devoid of redeeming values no matter how frustrating we are or were at times.


What??? Cali, where are you going with all this^^? Drop the speech making. It's so NOT moving. IF I got this from my soon to be x, I'd say "wow, he still doesn't get it".


What I hope u will do is focus on our positive qualities, even if u got to turn back the clock in your mind and remembering the early stages of our relationship – remembering again the very things that attracted and inspired admiration in one another. Maybe it was something physical, or maybe it had to do with ones personality or behavior. Whatever it was, there was something that caused you to reach out to me and in turn allow me to reach out to you. Without question, our relationship, the ways in which I feel for you, make it the most emotionally charged part of my life. The place where I have the greatest personal stake! Through my own negative attitude at times, I have unconsciously brought about everything I most feared and wanted to eliminate.

It astonishes me how the most normal, intelligent people can resort to most stupid things sometimes when dealing with the people they claim to love. I know I find this side of me distasteful and face up to that.


face up to what? If you mistreated her, SAY SO.


Simply and to the point...I messed up, I love you, miss you and hope we can patch up the strings!I’m sorry for any hurt I’ve ever caused you, you the love of my life

keep most of this^^^. It's super general but it's real. It's easy to read.


Btw, I'm not sure I've seen a single quality of hers written here, other than her attractiveness to you.

How do you feel about that?



Can you tell me what you being first would look like? I want to know as best you can tell me so I know what my mistakes are and I won’t repeat them. What did you mean when you would text me that you were thinking about me? What did you expect out of me when telling me this?

25year this is a great help, thank you! I tried to explain last night with my eyes half open that I had copied and pasted some stuff I had seen on the net, so I'm sure you know what was not mine. I was typing my own stuff in the midst of reading things on the net and I would copy and paste things that I wanted to re-read, felt I liked, or got my mind going in a certain direction.

[Cali08]

Ok so here is the big reveal. I called her to let her know I was in town and wanted to see her face to face so we could talk. She quickly said she would call me back and didn't. I got a text instead that simply said she will not be able to see you while you're there. I'm down in Georgia with my family. I didn't respond to her, then about 15 min later she text and said I hope you have a nice visit with my buddy.

I am now playing ping pong with my buddy in his basement and planning on what we will be doing for fun the rest on the time I'm here. Like I said I wished the divorce papers came a couple days earlier and then I wouldn't have come at all. I don't believe I even need to send her a letter now either and my next step is complete detachment from her. I now have the task of getting someone to read the divorce papers to make sure she isn't trying to screw me at all. I won't be able to do that until the end on next month when I return back home from Hawaii.

As I said this gives me direction.

[25yearsmlc]

ouch...I'm sorry Cali.


I'm not sure if you should respond. Do you believe her? Doesn't matter, however.

If you feel the need, MAYBE reply with something along the lines of....

"w,

Bummer, I wish we could've met face to face to finalize the end of our m. I could have used more closure.

Oh, just fyi, I planned the trip before I got the Div papers.

In any case, I wish you well.

Cali."

Pleasant, to the point, but detached.

Again, I'm so sorry Cali.

[Tread]

Cali,

Glad you didn't respond back. Its likely that she's not in Georgia. But don't go by the house to check. Enjoy your time withyour buddy and then enjoy Hawaii. Don't let the divorce papers get you down. Deal with that when you return home. This time is for you to take care of yourself.

[25yearsmlc]

to be clear, do not send a letter at all. I just meant maybe a text with a line or two about wanting closure

which I'm not saying to do. I'm on the fence, but if you do,

it's got to appear to require very little effort on your part (even if it only looks that way). Hence a text.
True, she did not know you were coming and it's not like she was obligated to tell you what she was doing when she did not know.

I'm just bummed for you.

((( )))

[Cali08]

Well I haven't responded and I just got a text from her asking if she could call me in the morning. I'm debating on if I should let her or even reply at all.

Just for the record, I'm not sure if I believe she is in Georgia either, but it is a very likely thing since her brother lives there and most of her family on her mom's side does and it is the fourth of July weekend.

So do I let her call me in the morning..... Do I even respond to her tonight?

[Tread]

Just a simple text saying 'okay call in the morning is fine.' And leave it at that.