I'll tell you what. You've been through a lot. Right now I could understand if everyone else told you that continuing to act warmly is enabling, allowing him to cake eat, and pursuing.
Personally I believe none of what he says and half of what he does. He's said some horrible things. He's done some horrible things. But if you look at the rest of his actions (the kissing and ILY) it shows the rest of the picture.
The picture is simple but difficult. You two love each other but are in a negative cycle. When you act lovingly you resent the lack of reciprocation and reassurance from him. When you act out this resentment he feels exasperated that he can't earn your trust and feels more resentful towards you and less inclined to reciprocate or reinvest.
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It reminds me of the card game I've posted a few times, originally for my old buddy Pyrite:
I read your post this morning but had to work all day and then had kid time tonight, this was my first chance to get back to you. I really want to share a model that I think will help you out.
There were two people, you and your W. Let's pretend there's a game being played. You have 10 cards you can choose from, A low, 10 high. Each time either of you interact with each other you have to decide to play a card symbolizing how you treat each other. A 10 means you choose to be extremely loving, selfless, generous, noble, and operate from your highest spiritual self. A 5 means you're having an average day, you're on auto pilot, you may do some things for your mate but aren't really engaged. A 3 is negative, critical, impatient. Below that is the red zone where it becomes destructive, controlling, and potentially abusive.
In the beginning each of you plays a 10 card. You both feel good about the love you're feeling, and feel good about the love you're getting. Somehow that's hard to maintain with life getting in the way. Eventually you notice the cards she's playing are 5s and 6s. This is frustrating. You came to really like 10s. In fact, when she was playing 10 cards you felt really good. When she plays 5s and 6s you feel dissatisfied. You get frustrated that she won't play the 10s like she used to.
Disappointment leads to frustration. Frustration leads to hurt. Hurt leads to anger. Anger that isn't addressed builds into resentment. Next thing you know, you don't feel loving. You don't feel like playing 10s much either. In fact, you start to resent even having to play 5s and 6s yourself. It's not fair! Why should she get everything she wants and needs and for her to neglect you with a series of 5s? You can't be happy with 5s, and you would be with 10s, so really it's her failure to do her job that is the cause for your unhappiness. You start to play lower and lower cards. Partly because you are so resentful you can't stand the thought of giving her what she wants while you're not getting what you want. Partly to try to "get her attention", or show her that something is wrong. And partly because you just don't have the loving feelings that generate bigger loving numbers.
You NEED big numbers to be happy. She's failing. You must force her to play bigger numbers. There's only one strategy left. Time to play some 2s and A's. Put the hammer down. Make it clear this is unacceptable. Either you give me what I want and deserve or I will make things absolutely unbearable. Verbal abuse. Withholding affection. Critical comments. Bullying. Whatever.
***OK, STOP THE GAME A MINUTE***
I described how it felt to play this game. If someone asked "what type of guy are you, are you the kind of guy that plays A's or 10's or what?", you'd respond "I'm a GREAT guy, I'll play 10s or at least pretty big cards most of the time". If someone asked "why did you play so many A's and 2's the last couple of years? That looked borderline abusive", you'd reply "WHOA! That's NOT ME. That's not who I am! I only played those cards because SHE left me no choice! She was playing 3's and 4's and not loving me the way I need to be loved! If she had done HER JOB right I would've been HAPPY to respond with 7s, 9s, and a 10 now and then!"
So the whole issue in your mind was the way she treated you, and how it caused you to respond. You don't identify with you behavior because you see it as a reflection of her failure.
BUT THERE ARE SOME TRUTHS -YOU ARE THE CARDS YOU CHOOSE TO PLAY. If you play A's and 2's, you are abusive. Doesn't matter why. If you kill someone you're a murderer. If you rob a bank you're a bank robber. And when you choose to treat someone poorly, then you are a BAD H. PERIOD.
-IT'S NOT HER JOB TO PLAY 10S AND MAKE YOU HAPPY. Yes, 10s feel great. It's a nice treat in life to experience. But that's not life. Life isn't a series of sexual adventures, passionate date nights, back rubs, and sharing poetry. Why? I don't know. We build a tolerance to things and quickly expect them and take them for granted. Heck, even if she kept playing 10s they would start to feel like 7s to you quickly as you got used to it. Eventually people get to a level they can maintain (such as 5s through 8s with an occasional 10) and it starts to feel like a disappointment. AND IF YOU USED THE 10S TO MAKE YOURSELF FEEL GOOD ABOUT YOUR LIFE YOU WILL SUDDENLY FEEL DISCONTENT AND FEEL YOUR PARTNER IS TO BLAME. SHE'S NOT. You have to be happy on your own, and take what you get as a bonus.
-ONLY YOU GET TO DECIDE WHAT CARDS YOU PLAY. It doesn't matter if she plays 10s or 1s. *YOU* decide each day what type of person you are, how you want to respond. It's YOUR choice, not hers. She can play a 3 and you can STILL CHOOSE to respond with a 10.
OK, so this is long and was written for someone else. But in all, given that he's still showing a lot of confusion, given that you're still married...I think you take this opportunity to show that you can GIVE without demanding anything BACK. Don't do it for him even. Do it for you, because you're proud of who you are and what you gave. Giving is a gift for YOU T0. Not for him. So continue to give.
I don't want you to get into some game where first he responds warmly, then coldly, so then you stop, and then he warms up, and around and around. If every time you feel done you quit acting kindly then this will never work. Just accept that you will feel fed up sometimes, but you get to decide your behavior, not your feelings. I always say: If you can't behave in accordance to your beliefs because of how you feel, how can you expect WAH to? Act with the character you wish he had.
I'd say just be warm and ask him about his day, and reciprocate when he says ILY, and just roll with it. I think if you can stay warm whether he's warm or cold then you've done your part. The rest is up to him. For the gym, you could certainly ask if he'd like to go along as long as it's not a loaded question and you can go on your own if he says no without an issue.
I don't see this as cake eating. This isn't forever. This is a family crisis. Imagine being happily married 30 years from now and think of how proud you'll be you silently supported your man through his crisis. You don't have to support HIM, just support YOU and be steady. He'll land soon enough.
Funny enough, if he comes back and acts like nothing happened, if you take him to IC and try to explain how deeply he violated your trust and how much he needs to prove he was wrong and it will never happen again, that might not work. But if you act unphased by all of this, act like he just lost his temper, and that you understand why he was at his ropes end because of how much pressure you had put on him...well, it wouldn't surprise me if he not only warmed up, but as things calmed down if he really DID start showing remorse and giving you the validation and reassurance you need. With words and actions.
Take care T0.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
I have read this post over and over. It makes sense the card situation is really how things escalated to here until the explosion erupted.
I am REALLY struggling on how to be warm when he treats me like crap. Didn't hear from him at all yesterday and then he strolls in at 930. I didn't say a word. We went out to dinner with his mom. He didn't say a word to me so I just was outgoing and talked with her and the kids. He chose to come home last night and not stay with her whether it was her telling him to come home or his choice I don't know but I didn't say anything.
I just feel like he has become progressively more cold and shut off to me. How do I turn that around and is it even possible? I don't know how to let go of when he hurts me by being disrespectful. He was mean last night when I needed to breastfeed the baby he was really short and rude and told me to just go get the car from the valet myself. So I just got up and did just that.
His mom really really wants to talk with him. I asked her not to. I think he will just feel attacked and cornered and it will make matters worse. And he will think I asked her to do it.
So anyway, not trying to sound negative but his actions show more that he is gone than not. The kissing and ILY I don't get because if he wasn't doing that there would be nothing tnwpuld be as if I were invisible.
He recently started taking steroid shots which he's never done in our 13 years together. So I'm sure his temper will be come shorter and shorter because I know the side effects of them.
I made plans to go take the boys away for July 4th I haven't talked to H about it but my dad said the other night H brought up that we were going away for July 4th asking if my dad could let the dogs out. I'm just like WTF ..
I'm just struggling to not let him hurt me with every time he treats me badly. He treats strangers with more kindness and concern.
I am REALLY struggling on how to be warm when he treats me like crap.
Think of it this way, T0. You are a whole person no matter your relationship/marital status. You were once on your own before you met H. Who is that person? I'm guessing she's a nice, sweet, sincere, and giving person. You're still her, no matter how H is treating you. Who you are shouldn't vary based on external factors, and H is external to you.
When I had to maintain my composure, I also found it helpful to remember that how people act toward you is usually more about them than it is you. We all have our lenses through which we view the world. Right now, H's lenses view you negatively, but that's all in his sandbox (not taking away from the fact that he may have valid reasons for being upset and distancing.)
So you be you! Picture an invisible shield around you. Expand the happy/outgoing to include H, even if he rejects it. Let it bounce right off that bubble. Ignore the negative, reward the positive with a bigger smile, or a small touch on the shoulder.
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He was mean last night when I needed to breastfeed the baby he was really short and rude and told me to just go get the car from the valet myself. So I just got up and did just that.
Good for you. Without H you'd have to go get the car yourself. So you showed him that you are perfectly capable and willing to do these things, therefore you can move on with your life with or without him.
It seems like you are scorekeeping the little negative things, but how about concentrating on how they're positives? Instead of viewing it as "disrespect", view it as an opportunity to show a distant H that you are capable and independent and you can handle anything.
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So anyway, not trying to sound negative but his actions show more that he is gone than not.
Well, at least you used different terminology than "he's done" this time
T0, the statement I quoted above means your negative cyclical pattern is setting up again. It always starts with a statement like this one. Can you stop scrutinizing what he is or isn't doing and trying to use a crystal ball to figure out what it all means? Your H is unpredictable. You can't predict. It's a waste of time and energy, and given that it also sets off the negative cycle, I think you need to stop this once and for all.
Can you figure out what triggers this behavior of yours? Is it your anxiety? Your fear of rejection or abandonment so you're hyper-focused on the "signs"? Whatever it is that causes you to start score-keeping and predicting and using the words "done" and "gone" needs your attention, or else you're going to keep going round and round on the carnival ride.
This behavior isn't keeping you safe, T0. Spending time ruminating and scrutinizing and trying to predict what he's doing ISN'T KEEPING YOU SAFE. It sets off the cycle and that means is 100% working against your own self-interest and it is therefore time to let this behavior go once and for all. Start noticing when you are thinking that way and redirect your thoughts.
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He recently started taking steroid shots which he's never done in our 13 years together. So I'm sure his temper will be come shorter and shorter because I know the side effects of them.
Good thing you've got that bubble, eh? His actions don't matter.
(And, steroids? Aren't those illegal?)
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I made plans to go take the boys away for July 4th I haven't talked to H about it but my dad said the other night H brought up that we were going away for July 4th asking if my dad could let the dogs out. I'm just like WTF ..
Hey, "he's done T0": if you're going to scorekeep, why isn't this one registering?
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I'm just struggling to not let him hurt me with every time he treats me badly.
Run for the bubble, T0. Get in it and don't come out.
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He treats strangers with more kindness and concern.
To be blunt, of course he does. He's very upset with you and is blaming you for his unhappiness. And some of those things are probably real things that you've done, and some are about him. But it doesn't matter because he feels it all the same.
Your M is in trouble, T0. Right now he's treating strangers better than you because your M is in trouble. Take the emotion out of it and accept it. You can't long for "what was" and let that build your expectations of him, because things are different right now. Hopefully they'll get better. Let's keep growing and learning and give your M the best chance to turn around!
By the way T0, there is a three part series on YouTube called Marriage Expectations by Andy Stanley that might really be inspiring to you. Parts I and II spoke deeply to me. I must not have been ready for part III wink
Whether you believe in God or not, the model is sound. The model looks like this- your number one relationship is between you and God. God is asking you to act towards your spouse as you'd act towards God. Not because they deserve it. But because God asked you to. So your relationship isn't between you and H, it's between you and God.
If you can go to bed knowing you have a good relationship with God and with yourself and have tried living up to the highest standards, then all is well. Let go of your will and let God's will be done, and have faith that you will be given a path through it.
Again, whether you are religious or not this is a good path. And your H may be at the center of a lot of interactions, but he's not at the center of the journey you're on.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
We are not very religious but I will look into the video.
Glad I have continued to re read these posts and thank you as well cadence. Your post couldn't have come at a better time. I haven't shown any of my emotions or acted anything but warm. We went to lunch with my family and his mom and I just was the person I am being talkative and funny. I haven't directly initiated conversation with H but I've just made sure to have a smile on my face and when he's an ass I'll picture the bubble reference haha
I know I can do this. I did it once before I just have let my hurt emotion and entitlement get in the way for the last 3 months. If I can figure out how to let that go I'm sure things will get better.
I suggested we take the kids cosmic bowling tonight so my parents and H mom will all come so it will be fun. Hopefully doing things like this remind him of the fun we normally have without the negativity
Thank you all for your patience. I've stopped checking the phone bill because I have also recognized that it starts the negative cycle. However the biggest trigger that starts the cycle for me is that I will go several days doing things that he has said he wanted and when I do that and give 10s as zues' post references. He still gives out 3s so then I feel anxious discouraged and hurt and it starts all over again
And all of my fear and anxiety comes from me fearing losing H...
I know this isn't right but I don't want to separate again, I don't want a D. Not that anyone does. But I feel stronger about this than last time especially with our new baby. It is not a life I want to envision coparenting a 1 month old.
I relate every action, reaction, lack of to last time. I compare everything he does or doesn't do to last BD. So when he does things or acts similar to that it makes me more anxious. I'm not sure how to deal with it besides letting go.
I try o envision who I was and had become last BD that attracted him back. I think of all of our talks and his thoughts about me during BD.
I just remember him saying he saw me as fun, happy, living my life without him. The boys and I always out doing something fun and genuinely having a good time even though he wasn't there. That I was laid back and just happy. That there was no pressure on him.
Everyone had a great time bowling last night. H mom commented on how strange it is that everything seems so normal. Everyone behaves the same including H as when she's here and things are good... anyway I had a great time and ran into some friends and enjoyed the kids. When we were leaving H said he was going to stay with his mom. I just said okay and asked if the boys wanted to go but they wanted to come home with me.
I was a little upset that h didn't text to say goodnight or if we got home okay but I thought about the bubble reference and decided to just send him a text saying goodnight and we missed him and to have fun with his mom. He just said thanks in reply again, struggling not to let that get to me but I will say I would Normally make a comment about it but instead I just didn't reply and went to bed.
This morning he went to our friends sunglasses shop that he has a gift card for. He originally planned on getting me a pair and him a pair. Well that's what he said a few weeks ago. Instead he got himself 2 pairs. I know it seems dumb but again it makes me realize things are worse then they were even a few weeks ago. But again I'm not going to say anything and try to revert myself to avoid getting worked up over it. I hope one day this gets easier for me.
H mom really wants to talk to him. I asked her not to but my parents said I need to not control what other people want to do regarding H.
What is everyone's opinion on this? I just don't want him to think I asked he to or feel attacked like she's on my side
Your H is going to think what he's going to think. The truth is you DIDN'T ask H's mom to speak to him. He's a WAH so of course he's going to blame all of the consequences of his actions on you.
You stay within that bubble. You are posting about it here so you at least know it's coming. Now you get to decide how to respond to it when it happens. Instead of being wounded and outraged that he could be so unfair, you can decide to shrug, continue on with your day, and ask him later if he'd like to join you at the gym (or whatever). Don't defend yourself, don't be drawn into an argument. Just let it go and focus on being the best T0 you can be.
To me this is a lot more detached than trying to control everyone near H because you are in fear of how his warped mind will react.
Make sense? Hang in there!
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
As dumb as it sounds the bubble reference has helped me. And him not being able to respond warmly to me is more about where he is vs me because I was the person only a fool would leave the last 2 days. I have embraced his mom and made sure she has spent all her time with the kids.
Last BD he ended up really cold and a huge you know what when I started finally becoming the person only a fool would leave. He was so angry with me. A lot of people said it was because he thought it was fake and was angry that I wasn't giving him reason to hate me.
I just told H mom to do whatever she wishes when it comes to H but to not feel the need to fight my battles... I just said 'I'm leaving the decision to you and what you think is best for you'
Oh and he won't yell or do anything like that. He doesn't communicate. He will just deal with JT intrrnally and probably move out. That's what he does.. he makes rash decisions out of anger. It won't be a yelling match. It will be a silent thing that he removes himself even further from me
