LiM: One Year into Piecing

[25yearsmlc]

FWIW

I think reconciling is hard of course, and not that common.

BUT it is so much easier than piecing. The LBSer tends to disbelieve that, or to think that if the recon happens,

they can return to the pre BD phase. OR they think piecing is endless amends making on the part of the WAS, but that will not and really should not, happen

We tend to want reconciliation to be Like a time machine turning the clock back...If only...

[bigybiz]

LIm:

Many of us wish we were in your shoes re: piecing, reconciliation, etc. Your sharing has shown us it's not that easy. In all honesty it would be easier to start a new life - but, that's not why were are here.

I wish I could be of more help. I think it was TxHubby who said we want our WAS to kick the habit of their addiction. They won't do it until we neutralize our addiction to them.

Keep on

[Ginger1]

Well, whether or not it was a mistake that you took her back right away doesn't matter as much now, because you have been piecing a year. But the fact that it was not her who decided to give it up and it happened so quickly does paint her actions today. She went from him to you and never really mourned the end of her A. That sounds dumb, I know. But as a single woman now, I am the one who can't understand a person who goes right into one relationship to the next. I need time to mourn the relationship (too much sometimes). Her mourning might be extended because she never really got to do it.

You say she showed true remorse within one week of the OM dumping her? What did that true remorse look like?

[BluWave]

Lim,

I wish I had something brilliant to add here. I don't. I also want to support you as best I can. A couple things comes to mind. First, when reading advice here, we all have to remember the perspective of the poster. It's hard to even know that sometimes. Clearly TxHub is leaving his wife after piecing vs myself and Storm who are closer to your sitch (still want M to work).

One thing that helps me reading/posting on the forums is that it forces me to check myself. Do I really take my own advice? It would easy for me to sit here behind my computer and tell you what I see or give advise, but I can't say that I would react/feel the same way if it were me. So I am going to try and do both.

Here is what I think it may mean and what you might want to consider doing:

We can never know what another person is thinking or feeling. We can speculate that she is pining for him, missing him, and still wayward in her mindset. Or, we can go to the other end of the spectrum and assume that she was being honest that yes, he is a handsome guy, a former lover, and she foolishy already chased that pipe dream. He shared it with a friend because she saw him and had a momentary feeling of loss. She is only human afterall. She actively chooses Lim and her M, she didn't tell him because there is no reason to hurt him, and she has no intention of ever making that mistake again.

None of us can know where she lies on the spectrum. And, her feelings may fluctuate as well. I think you should continue on with piecing has usual. When the two of you are safely with the C, you bring it up in a matter of fact way and let her know how it made you feel in a nonemotional way. I think that is all you can do right now. Hopefully her hearing how you feel helps her see reality more clearly. The new and improved Lim is the better option and you both know it.

Here is how I would feel and probably react if I read a text that my H send about OW to a friend:

I would be triggered, devastated, angry, fearful, and terribly sad. I would assume he still had feelings for her and wanted an R with her. I would assume he didn't love me or want to be with me. Just the thought of them together would make me feel physically sick. I don't think I could keep it to myself and I would probably unload on him. I would want to hurt him and punish him. Even after much rational thought and some time, I would most likely tell him to leave and not come back until he was sure he only wanted me. I would not wait for him to come back. I only want to be with someone that has eyes for me. I am okay with who I am most of the time. While I might agree that my above rational perspective is better, I accept that is not who I am.

I hope, and think, you can do much better than me. I am sorry this is happening. I am sure it hurts a lot.

Blu

[LiM]

Ginger,

How do you really know when someone is truly remorseful? I think you just have to go with what your gut tells you. With my W, she is not someone that can really pull off being fake. If she's not being genuine, even if crying and saying the correct words, I can spot it a mile away. But if she is being genuine, I can also see that. I have seen both and I believe I saw genuine remorse after the A ended. For her, once ending it was forced on her, she had to start coming to grips with what she had done and where she was in her life. Even tough I feel that I saw true remorse in her, I still wish I had kept her at arms length for a while longer. She never had to work hard to get back into the M. There were conditions that I put on her so its not like I just took her back thinking we would go back to being in a normal R. But I wish I had done more. I wish I had been stronger and made her work to get back into the R. The DB process has LOTS of advice on how to deal with a WS while they are wayward but not a lot on what do when the waywardness stops. I wish I had "rules" to follow for when that time came.

Bluwave,

I'm so glad you stopped by to offer some support. You are spot on. Its SO easy to sit here and offer out advice. Its a much different story to actually take your own advice. So often, you need someone else to step in and deliver the well timed 2x4. Thanks for doing that for me. I can see the 2 scenarios you laid out playing out in front of me. I have no idea what its like to be wayward and have to fend off those feelings. This is just as hard for her as it is for me. Even Sandi says that it took her a full 2 years to really come to grips with what she had done.

As for what I have been doing over the past week since discovering the text messages, I've detached significantly. I've been keeping VERY busy. I've decided to have NO expectations and work on not being so "needy." The result is that I have seen a HUGE change in my W's behavior. She has become significantly more talkative and affectionate. She's initiated ML twice this week which is unusual for her.

I'll continue with that strategy and we'll go on our trip to Germany in just over a week. When we come back, I have an IC appt and I'll discuss the text message with my IC and then talk to my W about it. I do plan to take your advice and bring it up in a non confrontational manner. I'll just tell her how it makes me feel without passing judgment or telling her how what I think she should have done. And we'll see what she has to say about it.

Tomorrow, I'm going sky diving. This was a birthday present from my W. I jokingly told her that it was a murder for hire plot so she could get rid of me
Send police if I don't post again! (kidding). I'm looking forward to it.

[LiM]

Update on my situation:

Didn't get to go sky diving yet.
Was riding my bike and got hit by a car. Totaled my bike but somehow, I am completely fine except for a minor concussion.
Went on my trip to Germany with my W and had a good time. I can't say that the time alone allowed us to reconnect and bond on some incredible level but we had a good time and we enjoyed each others company. My W's comment after the trip was that "we make a good team."

I was waiting till today (had appt with IC) to discuss my W's seeing OM at the track and the text messages she sent to friends and NOT telling me about any of it. My plan was to get some feedback from my IC and then have a conversation with my W where I simply told her how it made me feel. Unfortunately, last week we had an argument about something unrelated and it came out. It wasn't pretty. It was ugly.

Things have settled down since then and I intend to have another conversation with her tonight where I simply tell her how it makes me feel to know that she didn't tell me about seeing him and about how the things she said to friends makes me feel. I don't intend for it to turn into an argument. It will be how I intended it to go initially.

My W did leave me a letter in my car this morning that I found when I left for work. She explained that the reason she didn't tell me was because the encounter happened the day before my birthday and she didn't want to upset me. I don't know if that's really true. There was one other time where OM showed up at the same location as my W and she DID tell me about it and it was not upsetting. In fact, I thanked her for telling me and told her how much I appreciated her honesty. So based on my past behavior, she had no reason to think I would be upset. So I doubt that is the real reason she didn't tell me. My gut says hit had to do more with the feelings she experienced when seeing him.

Anyways, we'll have a talk tonight and we'll see how it goes. I really don't know what is going to happen in our R. I love my W and want more than anything to find a way past this. I don't know if either of us has what it takes.

[Matrix]

LiM,

A line from your first post on this board:

"Then 3 hours later, I received information that confirmed she was actively having an affair. I had managed to stop doing all the things on the list except the spying. And now I can't undo that. I am paralyzed and devastated. I don't know what to do"

Then this:

"I don't know if either of us has what it takes"

You DO have what it takes. You have walked through hell and back. You are here, with your wife by your side. Do you know how many people on this board would give their right arm to be where you are now? Just to even have a remote chance?

Take solace and rejoice in what you have, TODAY. You can do this. Go back and read your early posts. Remember that feeling?

I know piecing is usually the hardest part of this process. I have been there and it was awful, but you can do this.

If your "gut" tells you about what you "think" her feelings were, then that would be more mind-reading and you can't go there. Let some time pass and collect your thoughts. If you really need to know, then calmly set aside some time and tell her it is bothering you. Don't accuse her of anything. Just tell her how you are feeling and listen to what she says. Even if she admits that she had some feelings about it, that is fine. Then at least you know she is being honest and take comfort in that. If she says that she had no feelings about it at all, then you have no choice but to believe her.

Piecing is about rebuilding trust. You need to trust what she tells you. There is no way around this. You can trust but verify in most cases, but when it comes to questions about how she was "feeling", you have to trust what she tells you.

When you feel like you want to give up or you think it is too hard, that is the exact moment that you need to dig in and work even harder. In those tough moments, you need to love her through it. Try not to punish her. When you feel like you want to scream at her and ring her neck, don't. Walk across the room, hug her and tell her that you love her. Kiss her on the forehead and walk away.

Godspeed during this process.

[Stormchaser]

Hey LiM - glad you're back and sorry about the accident. I've been battling some health issues myself lately and coupled with what we're going through mentally, its not a happy recipe.

Dude, I'm gonna tell you something I said in MC one day: Our MC said one of the dumbest things I've ever heard concerning affairs, she said, "Things happen for a reason". My W agreed, but I cut her off and said, "Yes, things happen for a reason. The reason is you're stupid and you made stupid decisions".

LiM - we have a right to be angry. My new IC is in total agreement with this, he has ZERO tolerance for infidelity. Its like our spouses act like they backed the car into a fire hydrant and promise to be careful next time. As you read in my thread, my W sent a bikini pic to a former coworker without telling me and thought nothing of it. Was there sinister intent? No - she made a stupid decision. But we definitely have a right to be upset by it, and if it comes out in a argument, so be it. Their fault.

Our spouses will continue to do this. It doesn't mean they will screw around again, but they will do stupid stuff that they don't realize they're doing. If you see in my updated thread, my W revisited the place she quit to see her old friends (she had resigned immediately and barely had time to say goodbye). Was this a smart thing to do? Absolutely not. Pick up a phone, facebook them, whatever. Did she try to hide it? No. Did she tell me? No.

Stupid decision. Not earth shattering, given that she quit to be away from OM. Was she visiting OM? Likely not, but in OUR current state of heightened awareness, we can never be sure.

Its ok to lose your temper. Compared to the early days, I think we're doing much better and need to cut ourselves some slack. We didn't snap our fingers overnight and become changed people, LiM. We're trying to undo YEARS of habits in a short period of time. 10 steps forward and one back does NOT mean you're slipping backwards.

"I don't know if either of us has what it takes"

And that's ok. Feel that feeling and see where it takes you. You've come a long way, has there been more good than bad? If so, then stick with it and continue to make improvements. If things have not been so good, then roll up the sleeves and talk more in IC and MC about where you guys want to go. It just may be a long term reconciliation.

I still wake up sometimes, thinking about it like it was yesterday, and it was about 1 year 4 months ago. Those days are becoming less and less. Do I throw away that progress or see where it takes me? I think of the positive strides we've made and I decided I'll give it another couple of months. Then gauge from there. See how I feel at the 2 year mark. If I decide then that maybe this isn't for me, I'm ok with that. I will not look back on those two years as wasted, I will see the improvement I've made personally and see where life takes me from there.

Look at Txhubby's posts. He tried for 2 long hard years, then decided he wanted a divorce. He filed. Realized it probably wasn't working. Then he gave it some thought and decided to shelve the D and continue on reconciliation. His posts are full of wisdom and experience, I'd advise you to give them a read.

Tell us how your talk went.

S

[LiM]

Matrix,

It means a lot to me that you went back all the way to my very first post to provide me with some feedback.

Stormchaser,

You and I have walked very similar paths at just about the same time so we are a good checks and balance system for each other.

Both of you gave me some great advice. I guess I just need to chill the F^$k out and stop acting like the damn sky is falling. The problem is that I don't trust her at all so ANYTHING that is out of place make me feel like she's only here out of some sense of obligation, doesn't really love me, is only willing to do the bare minimum to repair the R and is just waiting to cheat again. IF all that were true, then I want to move on. I'm not interested in being in a R where I only have a part of her heart. I want all of it or none of it.

I do realize that I have what pretty much everyone on this board is hoping for. Its what I wanted when I first came here and what I was working towards the whole time. What I do know today is that I love my W and I DO want the R to work. So why is it that most of the time I just feel like saying "F^$k it, I moving on."?

Lately, I feel so much anger and resentment. I don't like that. That's not who I am as a person. I know early on, there were LOTS to times where I was hurting and angry and I CHOSE to love her through those feelings. Even when I didn't want to, I made myself reach out to her and give affection when every bone in my body was telling me to run. I haven't been choosing to do that lately. Maybe its time to do that again.

We did talk last night and everything was fine. It was calm and we both discussed the argument from the other night. I got to tell her how it made me feel to read those texts and to know she didn't tell me about the coincidental run in with OM. We have MC on Thursday.

TxHubby gave me GREAT advice as I found my way through my W's A. I was saddened when he said he had filed for D but I'm happy to know that's on the back burner for now.

[LiM]

So this has been a rough Summer for me/us and I fear I've basically become a WAS. Since discovering what she told her friends in the text messages (a few posts back) and knowing that she concealed an accidental encounter with OM from me, I SEVERELY emotionally detached and have been that way all Summer. Aside from our trip to Germany, where I basically just buried my feelings for the sake of the vacation, I have been detached more than when we were S and the A was ongoing.
I have not scheduled dates, I have not initiated ML, I do not hold her hand or give her hugs. I have kept myself very busy with GAL and working on things around the house. I tell myself that I'm doing this because of another breach in trust but probably the reality is that my feelings are hurt and I KNOW that she is still struggling to get over her feelings for OM.

I saw that she emailed herself a story on Yahoo entitled something like "I had an A and went back to my S but now I miss OM." I also saw something in a notebook where she wrote something along the lines of "It's ok to feel bad about hurting your S because of your A even if you don't totally regret the A."

It would be so much easier if my W would vilify OM the way some WS's do after an A ends. Even thought she has used words like "used and manipulated" to describe how she felt she was treated at times, I feel like she still puts this guy up on a pedestal. She's told me that he was her best friend.

I find that I'm asking myself if I want to be M to someone that doesn't totally regret their decision to have an A.
Do I want to be M to someone that is still giving part of her heart to someone else?

I'm so lost and hurt right now. I've hardened my heart to her and go out of my way to prevent myself from being vulnerable with her. And I KNOW being that way likely spells doom for the R if I can't get over it.

Now to be fair, she HAS asked me what she can do to help build trust. She HAS told me it is ok for me to look at messages in her phone (a 180 after complaining about not having privacy). But I've rejected all of that because I've detached so severely that I don't care anymore. She could move mountains right now and it wouldn't matter because I've stopped caring.

TBH, I'm not currently the better option. Why wouldn't she hang on to feelings for OM when I'm not currently giving her ANYTHING on an emotional level? I have gone above and beyond over the past year to support her to the point that I've competed in a triathalon because that is her passion and now I feel like it has all been for nothing because she's still pining away for him. I feel like I can't put myself out there anymore because I feel that she's still harboring feelings for OM over a year into piecing and I'm not willing to compete with HIM for a place in her heart.

I agreed to take my W back because I love her dearly and felt that I could forgive. But I only want her back if she is truly remorseful for what she did and because she chooses me. I don't want her back if she's only here out of some sort of sense of obligation or because I let myself be plan B. I would just assume move on with my life if that's the case.

I feel like I've mind read myself into a black hole and I don't know how to get out if it and allow myself to emotionally check back in to our R.