Here again part 6

[Zues126]

But nothing I do makes a difference.


What more am I or was I supposed to do ??

T0, you haven't gone 30 days without having an R talk that leaves your H exasperated and feeling hopeless about the possibility of making things work with you.

When you 'act loving' you do it for minutes and minutes and then feel hopeless that things aren't better.

When he doesn't respond the way you need him to when you need him to you say he isn't doing anything and it's clear he wants out.

Then you corner him and tell him you can't go on not getting what you need and challenging him on why he isn't doing his part and prove to him that your loving acts are less than skin deep.

Then you come here and post.

I disagree that it makes sense to cut bait and walk from the marriage. I have the utmost respect for other posters but they are also dealing with the loss of their marriage which isn't preventable and are struggling hard to find the bright side of divorce. I'm three years since BD and have found my own path, yet NEVER would I walk from a marriage in the spot you are in where the shell of the marriage is still intact. It CAN be saved and restored and not only could there be 50+ more years of marriage, it would be with the parent of your children and with the partner you swore vows to, and that is irreplaceable.

So what more can you do? You can go 30 days acting loving without starting an R talk and letting go of your scorekeeping about what he is or isn't doing to reciprocate. And I'd reschedule with the IC, because cancelling it seemed really passive aggressive like you are telling him "if you aren't going to try neither am I". If I were you I'd go to the IC, then apologize for the R talks and heaping pressure upon him, and I'd spend the next 30 days trying to clean up your side with the idea that maybe if you follow through in spirit and actually drop the expectations and score keeping, that maybe if you stop pushing him away with R talks he'll have time to see he wants to come closer to you.

This isn't criticism by the way. This is extremely difficult. But you do have to step up because if you don't you'll keep getting the same results. You CAN do this and it IS worth doing.

[Georgiabelle]

Z,

I love your thoughts and I think you offer great insight. I got the impression that posters (and I can only speak for myself) want TO to think about a lot of different scenarios. Don't stay married out of fear or if you truly cannot live with the way things are. And you don't want or are unwilling/incapable of seeing if things change. I'm certainly not implying weakness-I just think everyone has a threshold. For the record, I would say that I absolutely get giddy when I hear about 30, 40, 50 year anniversaries. I don't know. I just get the impression from TO that she doesn't want her marriage to end. However, it sounds like she can't do *this* again. And I can sympathize with that even though my situation wasn't the same.

I don't correlate letting someone go as to getting a D or even saying the m is over. I just see that as stepping back and letting things transpire. Maybe that's just my interpretation and we are all different.


Sending positive vibes to you, TO.

[OwnIt]

I don't think there is any question that everyone here wants TO to save her marriage because that is what she has said she wants (and lets face it with young children involved it makes it that much more desirable despite the difficulties). Nevertheless, TO has been advised for months now to stop the R talks, be loving, and act as if. She has not been able to do it.

In the face of that, and what seems like daily angst for her, some of us think that TO and H would be better served with some space to sort through their respective feelings and commitments to the marriage. I lived in the scenario with an H who made no effort and constantly said he was done. It was abusive and it harmed me and me kids greatly (and they are old enough to verbalize that).

I for one hope that with some time and distance that TO and H will come back as more complete people and focus on the important task of raising those three boys. As Georgiabelle discussed, I'm just asking her to confront the fears that are making her feel trapped. To live in a cage of fear is not to live at all.

And by the way, I am 100% pro marriage, but I don't believe living in a tense, cold, and embittered household is good for anyone involved. I think we are all well served to keep rereading Blu's thread for inspiration that time and space can be marriage-saving.

[Zues126]

I understand where you're coming from OwnIt. DB theory is all about doing something different so if T0 can't avoid falling into the same destructive cycle then I get why it might make sense to consider something else. And regardless of what she does we all agree that letting the marriage go in the sense of dropping the rope is the key to sanity.

I get nervous around the slippery slope of doing what gets you out of a difficult situation into a spot that feels better. This is eerily similar to the path that a WAS chooses. Right/wrong don't matter anymore, I don't want to feel this way anymore, I want out of this spot. There is a DB way to drop the rope, and no where have I seen separation suggested by a DB coach as a way of deescalating the situation. It may seem worse than a negative cycle, but DB is all about her breaking the cycle. The adversity in the current situation isn't going to be forever, it's going to be until she surrenders to God's will, let's go of expectations, and decides to dedicate herself to doing her part regardless of what she gets back.

By the way T0, there is a three part series on YouTube called Marriage Expectations by Andy Stanley that might really be inspiring to you. Parts I and II spoke deeply to me. I must not have been ready for part III

I'll end with a thought...many that walk away from a marriage site the fact that divorce may be difficult but that five years down the road those that divorce are usually happier than they were at the end of their marriage. They say this like it proves divorce was a good move. I always thought that was silly, because of course they were better, they were in a horrible spot at the time. But likely if they stayed married things could've gotten better too, because they were at a rock bottom and learning some tough lessons. Time made things better, not divorce. I hope for T0 that in 5 years things are better and it doesn't cost her marriage. But in the end we are ALL in her corner and wishing her strength to make tomorrow a good day and faith to know that there are good things ahead regardless of what happens around her.

[25yearsmlc]

[quote]But nothing I do makes a difference.


What more am I or was I supposed to do ??

T0, you haven't gone 30 days without having an R talk that leaves your H exasperated and feeling hopeless about the possibility of making things work with you.

When you 'act loving' you do it for minutes and minutes and then feel hopeless that things aren't better.

When he doesn't respond the way you need him to when you need him to you say he isn't doing anything and it's clear he wants out.

Then you corner him and tell him you can't go on not getting what you need and challenging him on why he isn't doing his part and prove to him that your loving acts are less than skin deep.

Then you come here and post.


^^all of this is valid and makes total sense to me

I disagree that it makes sense to cut bait and walk from the marriage. I have the utmost respect for other posters but they are also dealing with the loss of their marriage which isn't preventable and are struggling hard to find the bright side of divorce.


On the off chance you are implying that I am telling her to cut bait, no. Hardly. I've been a long time rooter for the m.

And no, I'm not projecting my situation onto hers. Read what I wrote carefully before saying I'm "looking for the bright side of divorce. Seriously?.

T0 has done the DB ordeal before. This is her second round and she claims she cannot do it again. Maybe she's wrong.


But That is what she has stated repeatedly. It's not throwing in the towel like some folks who face an A and blurt out "cheaters always cheat" and treat all situations alike. OR assume this is the first marital crisis. I DB'd for 2 years and then reconciled for 10 years so I'm not exactly the type of person to "cut bait"....

T0 is saying she knows she cannot do it again, like it's just not in her. Maybe she's wrong but I'm taking her words at face value. Some folks believe that an affair is always a deal breaker, and I'm not one of those. Some folks say a lot of things are deal breakers and they assume that others feel the same. I'm not one of those either.

And as I said, as well, I'll support any choice T0 makes. I'm not here to shove my opinion on her and as I said, I'm not here looking for validation;

I want T0 to be at peace. I take her words at face value, ask her to reexamine them and then - and only then, - if she is certain in her heart of hearts that another DB ordeal is happening and if she knows she simply cannot endure another round,

that's what I was referring to. T0, no I don't think you've been very consistent for very long and honestly, being pregnant makes a lot of things beautiful and a lot of things harder.

I could not support you leaving a m while carrying a child, absent some form of abuse. But it's the circular behavior Zues describes above that I hope will stop. I think it's harmful to you. And not getting you anywhere.

So far it seems you cannot change that^^^ dynamic, soon, with your h in the house. We have urged you to do so for months now.

But then you say "if he leaves he cannot come back", as opposed to you telling him to get some space for YOU to have some space...

What do you think you are capable of? You have been given a lot of advice and you do it and then literally within a week or so, you have an R talk. Or get upset about a text not being returned or you seethe about him being late BUT you "did not ask him where he was or why he was late"....

I know it's different when there was an affair, but normally, I cannot imagine asking my h these questions Unless I was genuinely afraid he'd been hurt or b/c there was an appointment he was needed for (I know that happened - he missed one. But these just don't sound like divorce reasons). And the affair was howling ago? I'm not judging.

It's all about what you can do, behaviorally and what you can do maritally.

I did not tell you what you SHOULD feel or SHOULD do or want...As I said and I specifically avoided that.

I'm saying if you know you cannot do another round of DBing, and if you know that's where this is going,

okay then...what do you want and need and what do you fear and what do you dream?

[T384]

Thanks everyone for all the thoughtful responses I will come back later and address them.

I'm in a dilemma. I haven't involved anyone or sought anyone to speak with H. I have told my parents and H mom knows things aren't great but doesn't know the capacity. Well I found out his mom asked a childhood friend to speak to h. He hasn't talked to her since last BD. She was not pro marriage last BD. I've always thought she liked H more than a friend. Anyway long story short she's pro divorce. Has 4 kids 4 diff dads just got married again. So anyway I reached out to her and asked her very nicely to please not involve herself that H mom had asked her to and I was sorry but to please not feel the need. I just said I didn't care if they were friends but that we were keeping our problems private and if he talked to her that's fine but that she didn't need to reach out to him like Hmomaakdd. Well long story short she screen shot and sent everything I said to her to H so now he's done I'm controlling he's moving out and ignoring me.

Do I just say nothing to him in response to his anger? I haven't said sword to him yet.

I'm very hurt by her involving herself and her screen shorting my messages like a child.

[T384]

Oh... and he doeNt know I can see th phone bill

He lied and said they haven't even really talked just a few texts.

They've been texting non stop for days and had an hour long phone conversation.

Yet he says to me he has no desire to talk to her or anyone else about our problems.

The only response I gave was that I wasn't involving other people and I'm sorry if anyone felt the need to get involved. That I was keeping our issues to myself and I'm sorry if I hurt anyone's feelings.

Unless anyone thinks otherwise I'm going to leave it at that. And leave him be. I didn't contact him yesterday and for the first time in awhile he text me asking if he could work until 7. I said no problem. Then at 7 text me that he was going to be a little later and was almost done. I just said thanks for letting me know. Drive safe.

So I'll leave the issue be unless anyone thinks otherwise. He's going to lie, talk to her, and believe what he wants regardless of my words. And she will do what she wants also.

I just need to get out of his way

[Thornton]

Slooooow waaaaaay dooooown, TO.

You are trying to control things that you can't control. Your H will talk to who he wants to when he wants to, you can't control any of that.

So what are YOU going to do? You can only control how you react.

[T384]

Hey Thornton,

It's not about me controlling who he can talk to. I don't care if HE chooses to talk to her but the problem was that H mom asked this girl to talk to H FOR me. I was just reaching out to tell her I didn't want her to speak on my behalf. I said if H wants to talk to her about it so be it but please don't feel the need to speak on my behalf. Sorry if that wasn't clear

[25yearsmlc]

what is your r like with his mom?

Are we sure of what his mom told her? And why on earth would his mom choose that woman for "marriage counseling" for her son?