Limerence and My Situation

[resolut]

Hi parkema,

Sorry about your situation. You've gotten some very good advice and seem to be handling this well. I would just underscore to be very, very careful to not interpret anything. When you interpret something in your WW you are usually going to be wrong. It can then throw you into a tailspin emotionally and be a setback for any progress you might have been making. I have had to learn this myself over and over when I see some change in my WW. I make the mistake of thinking it is a positive change of her moving back to the MR when it never is. It is also a sign for me that I am not detached enough and I need to move on.

[LH19]

Parkema,

First off I am sorry you are here. I know you would not wish what you are going through on your worst enemy. I applaud your determination to gather as much information and try to develop a plan. However, IMO you are doing somethings right (going dark, not pursuing, etc.) but again IMO a lot wrong.

I get why you moved out but again she is the one in the affair.

How are the expenses being paid for the house? Are you still paying them?

Complementing her and being her best friend. Really? How will that get you closer to your goal? IMO it makes you look weak.

What are your boundaries? Where do you draw the line in the sand?

Read Chris73's situation to see what happens when you try to nice your way out of your situation.

I am including a post from a poster named "Accuracy". IMO the best post I have read to date on this board.

There is really only one prescription and that is to take the focus off of W entirely and focus only on you, your life, and what you want from it. Your learning about what you need to improve about yourself are an asset you take with you, but everything else about W, what W is doing, what W is thinking, etc. needs to be entirely put aside.

Why are you doing it? Why are you so obsessed with W? You were in a relationship with a woman cheated on you and lied to you. Why is that a prize worth making the focus of your waking attention?

The reason is that you are grasping to re-establish a feeling of control over your life.

When W dropped the bomb she ripped your sense of stability away from you. From your perspective you didn't do anything to deserve it, you couldn't stop it from happening, and you couldn't put things back together afterwards.

That would make anyone feel totally out of control, spinning down the drain, and that is a horrible feeling!

You are trying to analyze and understand everything so that you can build it into a rational model so that it will never, ever happen to you again. If I can avoid doing X, then Y will never happen. In addition, you want to unlock this puzzle, to deconstruct it so you can find the solution that will allow you to rebuild it. Finding that key would provide immense comfort.

Your brain has convinced itself that getting W back, or getting W to apologize and declare a desire to have you back is the very best and fastest way to restore your feeling of being in control.

With the benefit of time and distance, you'll realize that's what it's really all about, it's about regaining the ability to feel in control of your life and your future. It really has very little to do with W or who she is as a person, she's a lever to get you what you want, but that's really just an illusion.

If you take the focus off of W *completely* she will notice. That will give her space to breathe, and to think. That's the only way these things turn around -- the ONLY way.

[dale165]

I see her probably once every two weeks. Usually dinner at her parents or out with common friends. We still talk everyday though. Her parents live 10 minutes from my house and love me to death. Her dad is very upset with her and her mom doesn't agree but doesn't bring it up much.

I'm starting to now. Been pretty consistent lately, getting work done (My job is 100% brain, no physical actions so you could imagine how hard it is to concentrate), killing the gym, going to a counselor, hanging with old friends. I did the wrong thing for so long, but I'm seeing small changes. The hardest thing is being positive no matter what, but I believe that's your best friend.

You look to have done a way better job than me so keep it all up. Don't follow the rules too rigidly though, we all have unique situations. Try to custom fit them to your situation. For example, she left me because I was too distant. So when I see her I try to explain what's been going on in my life and tell her stories. I used to just say my "my day was fine" and that was it. So talking to much may go against some of the rules.

BTW, I'm no expert on what works but an expert on what doesn't haha

[dale165]

One more thing which people hit on and is really important.

HAVE NO EXPECTATIONS!

This is critical. My wife would say things like I think we should be workout partners, next few days never hear from her and she's off on trips with OM. She would send nice messages to be then again gone. Now she wants to go on a weekend trip. This made me very happy at first but you must temper "slivers of hope" until you get mountains of hope. These wayward people are in a fog and who knows what side of the bed they will wake up on. Rarely will anything happen over night.

[Bdog37]

Hey Mark,

Sorry you find yourself here, but I think you have come to the right place.

Have you read the links that Cadet sent you? There is some really good information there that will help you understand more about your current sitch.

One in particular I would read is the "Boundaries cheat sheet" by Wonka. LH19 brings up a good questions as to where do you draw the line... She is carrying on an A with OM so how do you show her that this is something you will not stand for? IMPO you need to detach and in all circumstances stop engaging in wonderful conversations about your past. You can still be polite, and validate, but keep the conversations about the boys.

We had a great night talking and it felt like old times, she then had a call on her mobile and I instantly knew it was the AP/LO she didn't answer it and instead put it away.

You are carrying on a great conversation with her when the OM calls. How does that make YOU feel and did you say anything to her about it? Sounds to me like she is "cake-eating" and this is something that I believe you should put an end to. Not only to help her realize that she can't have both, but also to help you and your sanity.

Have you ever discussed anything with her in regards to what has led up to the A? You mentioned that she said everything was fine, and you agreed, but most people in wonderful M's don't go seeking A's... I could be wrong, but you will find on here that many A's start because of some emotional or physical need the S is searching for. Check some of the threads on here to help get an ideal of the mind frame from a WAS or someone who is the one engaging in the A. It may help understand where your W's mind frame is.

Good luck and keep posting.

[Parkema]

Hi LH19

I live in the UK and as such I have to provide for my family irrelevant of what WW is doing, so am contributing to the family home BUT she works full time as well.

Thank you for your insight into what I am doing and appreciate you challenging me on some points.

Being her best friend - this is all about limerence which as we know goes through 3 stages (infatuation, crystallisation and deteriation) and if you believe the medical evidence has to end. I see her on fantasy island living out her dreams with her soul mate but this can't go on and they either continue in a relationship that is no better than the long term relationship or it ends. Who knows...
I continue to be a friend (when she comes to me only) to provide that bridge from the island back to the family. Again know one goes to something that's worse than where they came from. I have to be better than the AP/LO, I see this as a sign of strength not weakness.

boundaries are there no contact at all from me. I can't and won't hold my children's interest in seeing their mum against them so maybe small boundaries but none the less. I don't pursue her at all she always comes to me, this gives me the opportunity to show her I am the better option and my strategies kick in.

I work on me and the best interests of my 2 boys that is it. As my previous post mentions I don't care what my WW and AP/LO are doing its not worth my time and would only set me back so I don't bother with it. I basically work to make myself better through my P.I.E.S NOT for her but for ME. It has the added benefit of her noticing also though...

"You are trying to analyze and understand everything so that you can build it into a rational model so that it will never, ever happen to you again." You better believe it and if we do get to R I will make sure our M is much much better although I am told by her the marriage was always good.

I don't focus any time on my wife any interaction is initiated by her, I am away from the A and enjoying the time I have making myself better whilst being there as a great role model for my 2 children this can't be wrong...

I'm sorry but you telling me I'm out of control is being very presumptuous I am perfectly in control of my situation. I don't know about the future except that their A will eventually wear thin and mundane and that WW will see him for what he is where will she go then? Don't blow up the bridge...

Really it is a win win situation I am in no hurry to move on I adour her and cant look at another woman that way YET, and whilst working on me am showing all a confident consistent happy outgoing person who hopefully only a fool would not want to be with if that's my WW I'll invite you to the party if someone new then so be it.

Just to clarify:

NC - No contact from me at all unless she wants to but then nothing about her A.
Never pursue - I give her all the space she can get and then some. This is funny as she becomes the pursuer see above!!
AP/LO - No calls, texts whilst visiting the boys when with me, no drop off or pick ups with the AP/LO. This is for his best interest I assure you...

I do obviously have issues here she still is in an A but with the correct boundaries and strategies and a lot of patience I hope to win her back not just for me but for our boys and her...

Thanks again

Mark

[LiM]

When she's around being her best friend - listening to her a lot and validating positively.
Being her safe place - I basically want her to feel she can come to me if she needs comfort or just someone to talk to and not be judgemental or pressured by awkward questions about the A.

Complimenting often and gauging the response.

All the time I'm engaged in being the best husband I can trying to make her laugh whilst showing her the massive investment in being a great father to my most treasured.

Hi Mark,

Sorry you are here. I have no idea how you manage when she's not even making an effort to hide the A. She's carrying it on right in front of your face. How blatantly disrespectful!

You are doing a LOT of things right and you are to be commended for it. This is a hard road to travel and that fact that you can do anything positive is a testament to your character.

But there are some things you've got to stop doing immediately. You are being WAY too nice to her. I'm not at all suggesting that you be mean to her or treat her poorly but you cannot nice her out of this. You are no longer her husband, best friend or confidant. OM is now filling all those roles. You are a second class citizen and she is cake eating. Stop complimenting her and "being there" for her. She's left the M and she does not deserve that from you. Being nice to someone while they are treating you this way is telling that you have no respect for yourself and that its ok for them to walk all over you. You cannot be her friend right now. She's basically told you that your M was fine and that you were a model husband. So what is there for you to validate? Does she actually have any complaints about you?

What are the finances like? Are you still supporting her financially?
Does OM's W know about the A?
Whats the work situation like? Is OM a superior of hers? What would happen if the A became exposed at the work place. I'm not suggesting that you do that; just asking what would happen. Would someone get fired? Transferred?
Have you met with an attorney to know your rights?
Have you told her that you don't want a D but that you are NOT ok with an open M?

You've got to stop "being there" for her. She's chosen a life that excludes you and until the A dies and she experience some sort of horrible loss from her choices, you have no shot at R the MR. Anything you do to be supporting or encouraging right now will only make you look weak and prolong things.

You need to eject her from your life. She gets NO benefits that you provide as a H. The sooner you let her go, the sooner you can start working to repair the R. Things WILL get worse before they get better.

Have you read ALL of Sandi's threads? Do it if you haven't.
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2653323&page=1

[Parkema]

Hi Dale,

So you're changes are proving to bare fruit congratulations great news, why do the in-laws like you? Because of you! You're a good person who will do everything in his power to get the most important person back from insanity, no bad thing.

Being able to communicate when she chooses could extend her A, I know how hard it is not to stay in touch BUT feeling the void could be beneficial. Do you pursue her or does she do all the pursuing? Ideally let her pursue you it will happen but can totally understand you wanting to stay talking to her. Thinking about this maybe don't listen to me at all who am I to know, I would hate to add to your problems but it is a common theme.

People need to understand limerence and how it affects the brain, she basically is not herself due to these chemicals BUT IT ENDS and being that safe place with strong boundaries is showing positive signs. Good for you.

I am quite new to all this and hopefully I will learn much from DR especially about validation and communication and also see lots of good information on these boards, thanks all.

The people here are really helpful and am sure you are using the information to help you succeed.

Stay strong stay with it and good luck.

Mark.

[Parkema]

Hi Bdog37,

Just to clarify she brings up the conversation I tend to engage and listen then validate.

When the OP/LO called she didn't answer as this is one of my boundaries how do you think that went with them both her NOT answering? He must have known where she was..?

I agree with the "cake eating" BUT she's there for the boys I detach unless she wants to talk I can't very well run away from her but I can use it to my advantage. This might be prolonging the limerence in her but my boys are my primary concern and I have to manage this the best I can, sometimes I leave the house entirely giving that boundary again.

Do we not agree that engaging in conversation is what builds a relationship? Where would we have been at the beginning of our R with our S if we didn't talk about mutual topics! This is allowing me to show her I'm invested in what she thinks it doesn't mean I agree in what she's doing...

I fully understand that I am 50% to blame for our issues and know where I fell down and is something I'm working on but is this better for a new R or to better the existing one? I feel she is worth all my efforts to bring the family back together and save her from this condition.

Thank you for your insight.

Mark

[Parkema]

Hi LiM

I can't control her only myself so her carrying on with the A in front of me is the main reason my primary boundary was put in place I left the family home not an easy decision.

I'm a nice person but have boundaries she knows what she's doing is wrong BUT she can't help herself at the moment (those chemicals) again I don't pursue she does and this is a fundamental thing to achieve, agree..?
Maybe I'm being too nice but see this as putting deposits into her love bank instead of having them removed. We must all remember what we did to end up with this person in the first place and it wasn't by being someone they couldn't talk to or feel unsafe around and this is what I am trying to get back to BUT with strong boundaries.

A second class citizen who she see as being able to feel safe enough to talk about anything and not be berated when doing so, why not the AP/LO? Again I don't initiate these conversations.

You've got to stop "being there" for her. She's chosen a life that excludes you and until the A dies and she experience some sort of horrible loss from her choices, you have no shot at R the MR. Anything you do to be supporting or encouraging right now will only make you look weak and prolong things.

I agree to a point but the original subject was about limerence and this does end I'm just making sure when it does I'm the best choice for her and this takes strength.

Again limited contact due to having children who we share custody and when at mine I remove myself.
No pursuing ever, no calls, no texts no emails nothing. She pursues me, maybe I am providing her with some emotional support but on my terms.

Limerence end my bridge is in tact.

Thanks for your opinions they are truly appreciated.

I will look at the other post as I really want to use your knowledge and experiences to escalate R.

Mark.