Ginger - thank you so very much. Your perspective is very helpful. The quick answer is s13 and I do discuss the sitch. It is certainly leaving marks on him. How could it not? It has been going on so long now that this is now who his dad is to him. He can't remember who he was. And he asks me why I married this person. Of course I DID NOT marry this version of this person.

The complexity lies in the fact that s11 is scared to death of divorce. It's his worst nightmare. S13 is very intuitive and has mentioned this and worries for s11. S13 says d would break s11. They are such good, good kind boys. I am blessed.

Right now I don't know what to do. Having gone through my own depression, I know this can be a phase, like Roist says. And by the way, my own mom was depressed my whole life. She was withdrawn my whole childhood. (So, I know this whole phase thing may wear thin and may NOT just be a phase.) And yet, I always knew she loved me. I didn't feel as much hurt as my older sister did. I don't know why that would be. The point is: different kids are impacted differently.

Hi Heather! So nice to hear from you. You are an inspiration, as is Ginger! Two women who got themselves to higher ground and showed their kids strength.

Bttrfly and Gordie - thanks for the support. It means a lot. You two are weathering tough storms as well.

Roist - I do see the little steps forward. But my word is it a slow slog! I feel like saying something. Maybe he needs a little jab with a stick: "hey, you've been in this for 5 years, replay for 3, this dorm room for 2 1/2 and paranoid for a year. Any plans to wake up anytime soon??? If not, with all due respect, maybe it's time for you to go find yourself elsewhere?"

I have MLC updates I want to post for reference sake, but that's all I have for time. I will post more later today.

Last edited by job; 05/21/17 02:48 PM. Reason: editing posting for the poster

Me 41, H 47, M 15 yrs, S11, S13
BD 1: 11/4/14 we work on it; really I pretzel myself
BD 2: 3/31/15 H goes down to "dorm room"
8/15: H back to MBR
10/15: H back in dorm room
1/18: H files, now divorced