BRAVO, you hit the nail on the head with one more powerful stroke. I am still talking to my W even though she has moved out and taken our children, been gone for about three months. I told her that I realized that our R was dead and that if I had to start over I would really like to do it with her. She seemed releaved that I had admitted to the death and a little open to starting over. This was 3 weeks ago and we have still not done anything together but talk on the phone. I am not pushing or pulling her, I am simply baiting the hook and hopefuly she will nibble so I can set the hook. We loved each other at one time so the foundation has still got to be there. I just have to be her friend until she can see that there is something worth saving. After all I am a great guy and other women tell me she had got to be crazy for taking the chance on loosing me, so I will just hang in there. I have never given up on anything in my life and I don't plan on starting now.