Not to nag, but if you have not watched "Under the Tuscan Sun", please do. Or see it again.
No, NOT the cliched "messages" -though I love the scenery & film for all of it.
There are some gems of wisdom in that film.
The R she had with the hot guy from Portofino Italy, Marcello, is the one who helped her get "back on the saddle" (I don't know another way to say that..."get over the hump"??) Remember how she said she was delighted she "still got it!"
Her r with Marcello was not a long r, but it was intense. In the film it seemed to break her heart to have it end.
(*She had already had her heart broken when her long m ended in divorce, which is what led her to Italy in the first place.)
I thought Marcello's comments about the R ending were spot on, and in retrospect very honest.
The end of that r and how HE saw it, eventually sank in to me and maybe to her, I think. And the whole experience helped her get perspective and prepared for the real thing when it came along.
FF might be the Marcello of your life. Ginger, You CAN feel passionate LOVE again!! And your D can bond with a man who is not your exh. Yay!! Isn't that a net gain? Stepping back, can you see this as a good experience at all?
IF you knew 4 months ago what you know now, would you refuse to date him?
Secondly, What would you do differently if you met him 4 months ago AND dated?
He's young and he is in major transition, and the r has run its' course. H planned poorly, as far as not wanting a family yet, and then dating a single mom.
Still, I don't see it as a failure unless you think you went too fast, which is a learning point for you. (You know, you can change how you engage in a R, you don't have to say "it's just how I am" if you don't want to.)
Here's a relevant question -
My T has hammered it into me that I "cannot marry the first guy I date, even if I think he's perfect".!!
Okay...she really stressed this^^ a lot to me, so, I get it.
Since I didn't plan on dating soon when she said this, I have to assume it's a pattern for people who leave long term m's, to remarry too fast. It's reactive dating. NOT dating is also reactive, imo.
Does that mean the first 3 (?) guys I date, are a waste? Should I tell them?
Should I say, "thanks in advance for getting me closer to the REAL man I'll end up with, but it can't be you..."??
Sometimes I imagine wearing a sandwich board saying "available for dating as precursor to finding the right one - and it's not you..."
In other words, I have to see these as learning experiences, even the crappy ordeal I'm in now. Otherwise I'll make no progress. I won't learn about what I need from a man who is healthy and well suited for ME. Heck, I won't learn about myself!
Much as I wish we could "learn hard life lessons" from things like winning the lottery it seems like pain is the touchstone for transformative change in our lives. Or not...
To me, these experiences of yours are not failures. Unless YOU lie, cheat, carelessly hurt another OR fail yourself in some way - then these are gems and memories that might be bittersweet, but nonetheless sweet..in time
I'm rambling but does any of this ^ Make sense?
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Ginger - Just want to remind you of a few things. Things I wish my 20-something self had known.
- your desire to heal the wounds of your childhood lead you to want to much too soon from a relationship. You are not just evaluating a potential partner, you are looking for the affirmation you so desperately desire. You need to find a way to separate the two so you don't relive the trauma of your childhood with every relationship, and so you don't end up with a guy who is not right for you just because he wants you. You know the Buddhist saying, "All suffering comes from desire?". I wanted so badly to be in a permanent relationship when I was in my late 20's that I blew right past the red flags about my ex. You might want to check out a book called When The Past Is Present by Richo.
- AS for your daughter and dates- I know it's inconvenient but I would wait a minimum of 6 mos before introducing her to anyone, and longer before involving them in her life. Yes, it's possible you'll waste 6 months on a guy and then find out he's not a match with your kid, but you'll save your daughter the pain of attachment and rejection.
- Try to just enjoy the moment with future dates and don't try to project too far into the future. Someone will be right for you but it takes TIME to get to know them and find out if they ARE right for you. Jumping in with your whole heart is NOT a virtue, it's a sign of neediness. True love is different than the acute infatuation that occurs early in a relationship (and, indeed, the stronger that acute infatuation is, the more you have to wonder if it is based on a healthy evaluation or an unhealthy fantasy.) Give a guy time to show you who he really is before you get so involved.
- the key mindset change you need to make is to move from "does he think I'm good enough for him?" to "Hmm, is this guy good enough for me?"
- and if you are the type who gets too attached as soon as you sleep with a guy - DON'T SLEEP WITH THEM until you really know who they are. (I don't have a problem with this - in fact, as a child of the 60's/70's, I'm comfortable with friendly casual sex in the right situation. And when a relationship doesn't work out I'm pretty quick to move on. But I have a friend who attaches really strongly once she sleeps with a guy, and it takes her forever to get over a broken romance even if it clearly was the wrong guy. SHE has to be very very careful who she sleeps with and wait until she is quite confident. She even goes to SLAA meetings because of her tendency to over-romanticize relationships and get "stuck".
I have to agree with KML about sex...it can have a very big impact on emotions. If you're someone who sees sex as a sign of commitment then it's best to wait until you're sure (as sure as sure can be in any dating situation) that the other person is where you're at. If not, it assumes as level of intimacy that may not yet be there. I noticed in my past relationships, when I let Mr. Woody take over my thinking, that adding the sexual component to the mix actually had a negative effect on the growth of the relationship. It's something that deserves more thought than it gets in our fast paced, do it now world. If a guy can't wait then screw him...I mean move on lol. More food for thought, I guess...but for now, just breathe deeply!
Thanks for the feedback, I've been reading and really taking in what everyone has to say.
First, this isn't my first rodeo. This is not a rebound. I've been at this dating stuff for 9 years. I've never gotten pat 6 months, but I've dated, I've recognized who is right for me and who is not, I've had my friends with benefits which I cut off when it made me feel worse than good. I didn't go for that plumber who was interested in me, but I wasn't interested in him. I am the one who let go of exNG because he couldn't give me what I wanted. And yes, I looked far into the future with him, which was dumb. I spun for a while on that one because of how he began dating someone in the process of our breakup. It was very PTSD like to me. I took a good amount of time alone getting over him because I never have rebound relationships. I am not the type who goes from one to the other. It is not built in me. FF came when I was ready. I was truly ready. I was so trying to GAL to just deal with the fact I was indeed lonely. I didn't GAL because I was looking to meet someone. I needed to take up my time and the gym I joined was a great way. I was doing great, and into the second challenge walks in my instructors baby bro the girls all were like "yes, fresh meat!" (the girls in my class were mostly single in their early 30's. I was friends with them" I had said to myself "he's cute, but WAY too young". He pursued me. It was the last thought on my mind. We had the most wonderful magnificent first date. Yes, it lasted to the wee hours of the morning with talking. Continued on later that day. All his pursuit. four days into dating it was valentines day. he brought me flower, a bottle of red wine and a teddy bear that sings and says words like "you're mine" on the fan. he sent me a text that day asking if I would be his valentine and how happy he was that he met me and is living every second of getting to know me. Maybe I should have run then? I dunno. But it was felt really good especially after getting nothing for so long. Everything did bloom from there. We enjoyed every moment together. We enjoyed a vacation together a little over a month in. Just me and him for a week. Not one single issues. Just fun and laughs and connection and the best time ever. Things continued to go well. We were there for eachother, helped eachother out with things, learned a lot about eachother. We were dating. We were loving dating. We did many fun things together. It felt great to be truly courted. I did meet his best friend who loved me and thought we meshed well together. I didn't rush horribly. I finally dated someone. It felt good. I was doing things just about "right" Maybe the only "right" was not kicking him to the curb when he came on strong? Or letting him be involved with my D early (again, a matter of circumstance because for 5 weeks of dating she saw him every night at the gym, we were a small tight knit group and she exercised with us, she was our little mascot" I would essentially have to lie to her face every night and the kid is intuitive as heck, she was the one who guessed it.
I do disagree, jumping all in with my heart is a virtue, it's not neediness. It's a virtue I wish I didn't have, but one that is the make up of me. Discussed with my IC also heavily. She thinks what I have is a rarity and can be either insanely rewarding, or insanely painful, and unfortunately, it's insanely painful when it ends.
As far as the sex? No, I don't get attached at sex. The plumber..... I never told anyone here but I slept with him on the second date. It was sex, nothing more. There was no attachment after because I didn't feel that way about him. Sex did not make it any harder to end it with him. It does turn out I only really enjoy it when there is an emotional connection.
I do believe there is a lesson to take away from every relationship. This is maybe be very weary of someone who seems all in and gung-ho from the beginning. But I don't think I did anything wrong. That is a change for me. I don't think it was me. I don't have that foolish notion that if you care about someone enough everything will workout. he needs what he needs. I also learned to make sure the situation really is right. That there aren't unbeatable obstacles to overcome. I don't think it is unhealthy to look to the future. Why wouldn't someone? I stayed present, but of course I looked to the future, because of our fundamental differences, and you need to figure out if they can be overcome. I truly did live in the moment with him and I enjoyed the whole dating process.
With all that long windedness.....
He was posting he was "interested: in these events we had talking about attending. I kind of lost and just went off facebook all together. I found myself constantly on Fb looking for some signs, wondering if he was looking at me..... which I am sure he was, but I don't want to see in his life right now, and I don't want him to see into mine. I am not in a place to handle it. Unfriending him still leaves a bunch of mutual friends, and I don't want it. So I am taking a short hiatus while I get my head straight.
In the meantime, it's friends, school, gym, taking care of my home, reading, and whatever else keeps my mind off of him and keeps me busy and off social media. Work is difficult because my job is boring and my mind keeps wandering.
I think the crying for the most part stopped. There is just an empty feeling in my chest. I am depressed.
OK, maybe it's just me, but I would suggest that in future you refrain from sexual activity too early in the relationship...because it's not yet a relationship. I now get why Plumber thought it would be ok to send texts of a sexual nature to you. I think sex too early again adds a layer of complexity to the situation. It's one more thing to think "what did that mean?" and it has a tendency to take over and stunt the growth of the relationship. Later on it can be a lovely experience that enhances togetherness but too early...not so much.That's my take and my experience anyway...others may disagree, but I'm putting it out (bad choice of words here) there anyway.
Really great stuff from KML - I mean really great. In time, I hope you'll open to what she said. Timing, that's what is needed here. It's too soon to fully dissect things. Near everyone seems to be seeing and saying the same things, but you don't see them or have excuses for them. I've done that myself. After all I'm living this life and you all are not - right? Yet we all see it but you can't or don't want to. I get it. In time I think you will too - much as it hurts.
So you unfriended him? Good. I know I and others wrote a lot and there is much to read but will you be running into him at the gym? If not, why not? I'm nearly sure you both go there, unless he's pulled out? Or are you hoping to run into him there? Are you?
It's often really hard for us to see things as clear as others often can. I see that here a lot and do it enough myself. Once down the road you tend to start seeing things more clearly. I'm hopefully in time you will start to see what many here do.
DonH Midwest Me 56 WAW-EXW 55 Met 11/95 / Married 5/00 Bomb 6/20/05 / She Filed on 6/2/06 / Divorced on 10/9/06 4 who'd qualify as GF since D & dated about 25 women since D
After re-reading what you wrote G I have to ask why jumping in with your whole heart is a virtue? It's one way of approaching love but that doesn't make the attachment any more virtuous than taking your time. I know I have a tendency to want to jump in fast too...but it's because I don't like the anxiety of not knowing, it's certainly not a virtue. Protecting your heart does not mean you lack virtue, it means you value yourself and the relationship enough to make sure it's what you need it to be before "jumping in" all the way. I think it takes discipline and practice...and for people like us it's not easy. Also people tend to value something that they have to earn and work towards obtaining. When someone just hands you their heart it may not be valued that much. I know it sounds very unromantic but it's true in life and in love. Anyway, just more to ponder.
This is all a bit too much for me right now. I'm seeing my IC tonight and hopefully I will sort a bit out.
One question though. What does "jumping all in" mean to everyone? I think it might mean something different to all of us. Like I didn't make FF my life. I kept my life I knew as an individual going (which I don't think HE was happy with all the time). I mean I let myself enjoy the dating process and when I felt feelings of caring deeply for them, I didn't stop them. I let myself feel for the person I was learning about. Maybe I wasn't supposed to do that. It's what I do though. With friends, partners, whomever. That I cannot change about me. We just really enjoyed each other. I think the way I get sad when it's over makes people think I am so overly invested. I am just a strong feeler of loss. And gain.
....and I am completely off FB. I didn't unfollow him. I just deactivated my account while I get my heart straight. I found myself going on too much, scrolling for SOMETHING, and seeing his stuff. I didn't like the overall dependence on FB I was getting. so I just taking a hiatus so I can clear my head. he probably thinks I went and unfriended him, but I am just off.
I think "jumping in with my whole heart" sounds hasty and the impression I got was that you saw full commitment in a hurry was virtuous...glad you don't I hope your visit tonight is helpful.
I hope your visit tonight is helpful.