HJ, I've been reading your thread. There is so much strategizing and planning going on. Can't you just give both of you some space? Follow the DB rules. Stop pursuing, planning, etc.
That's just the thing. Im in a weird spot due to the dynamics that got me here. Neglect and distance are what CAUSED my problems in the first place. So, "doing 180s" and "avoiding pursuit" are directly opposed here. This is a woman who wants to be pursued/noticed/etc. Ignoring her is exactly what got me into this mess. My best interpretation of the DB guidelines (and I have had the benefit of some DB coaching, here) is that i SHOULD show signs of interest and SHOULD be looking for opportunities to foster closeness/touch/intimacy. OTOH, this is directly contrary to what Sandi and others say about what to do with WWs... but, then again, my "WW" has what seems to be some atypical quirks. I'm doing the best I can, spending alot of time on improving myself physically, spiritually, socially, emotionally, etc. However, with a cohabitating wife, there's only so much "space" i can give her (and perhaps only so much i SHOULD give her. I'm trying to walk what I think is a very delicate line here. I honestly think that complete distancing, close to the point of going "dark" would be counterproductive. OTOH, she is fairly clearly not interested in me right now... but yet she stays. Honestly it would have been much easier, process-wise, had she rejected the NC ultimatum and moved out... then my path forward would have been, IMO, somewhat clearer. Now, at least on the surface, she seems somewhat interested in at least exploring her future with me... though she has not, IMO, reached the point of full remorse/responsibility for the A. I think that Sandi is right that for now it is "Baby steps". But the situation is, I think, in some ways unique and I am not finding alot of precedent for my exact situation on these boards... which is why I keep posting looking for insight.
And isn't strategizing and planning at least on some level sort of integral to the whole DB mindset? Yes, you are doing things for YOURSELF so you come out better no matter what the result, but your goal/objective is STILL primarily to "Bust the Divorce", yes?
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
I think you can show that care and concern when she initiates contact. You are not seeming to give her time to think things through. You have to do what you think best because you are the one who deals with the consequences but anyone here could cling to that one line in DR and make the same case. Too many examples of people who dropped the rope and got response vs those who pursued and got divorces. Mine stuck around too until I showed him the door. Doesn't mean he was planning to stay. Inertia is a powerful force for some people.
Thanks, OwnIt, really appreciate the perspective. FWIW you are not the first one to tell me something similar. It's just that in my current situation it seems like there is plenty of conflicting "advice" or philosophies, at least as to the details. I am trying hard, however, to not be overbearing and to keep a healthy "distance". If you've read my story, however, you know that I have alot stacked against me here, and sometimes it is hard to keep the faith and not over-tinker with things. I am stubborn and a fighter (not in the physical, violent sense) by nature, and having only been recently "awoken" and with so many hopes and dreams for the future, I really want to "fight" for this. So distancing is hard to begin with, and doubly so when I know that that is what got me here in the first place. I certainly understand the theory and the principle, however.
Thanks again.
H53/W51, R-ing 4/'18
"Do not arouse or awaken love until it so desires"-Sg.of Sg 2:7
"So oftentimes it happens,that we live our lives in chains, & we never even know we have the key"-Eagles III 1:3
You W sound like me, she convinced herself that she was doing no wrong and we were having a amicable split, instead of her running off with OM.
In Hoos' case, the marriage was deeply troubled and by his own admission, his wife's essential needs were unmet, for years... Hoos, she's not saying she wants to "run off with OM" from what I'm reading.
Did I miss something?
It's also like they can't match their behaviour with their own moral or values so have to write a story in their mind to make them feel better about what they are doing.
Every one of us, LBSers included - has a narrative. Even in solid marriages, views differ. And in retrospect we find our own views change too...
We have to keep the focus on ourselves, our roles & our mistakes, and
NOT what we think they think... Besides, the spouse who leaves justifies their choices, AND THE spouse who stays, justifies their choices.
Doesn't make the choice right, but it is fruitless & time consuming to expect our views to change theirs. Equally fruitless and time consuming to fume and judge what we think they think...believe me, I've wasted way more of my life on these pointless activities than I care to admit.
We do what we do and tell ourselves we have a "good reason" for it. Human nature.
Have strong firm boundaries, don't agree to tell the story her way. She need to see the consequences of her actions, she is in a dream world at the moment, where she can leave you to be with OM and she has done nothing wrong. Hoos cannot change what she believes about her actions,
all he can do is become the best Hoos he can become, and hope the changes he makes in himself are of value to him, and someday perhaps noticed by his w.
As for having "firm boundaries" - I often wonder what that means, exactly. How is he to enforce them? As for his w "needs to see the consequences"...maybe I'm not reading that comment correctly.
But the words of my DB coach - a real Godsend if I ever had one - ring truer now, more than ever -
"It's Not our job to teach our spouse a 'lesson' or show them the consequences of their actions. Life does that for them."
This^^ keeps us from playing God or punishing,
*it keeps our energy & focus on ourselves and the work we have in our own moral and emotional sandbox, * and for those who want to save their m's, it avoids putting obstacles in the way of reconciliation.
No walkway or wayward spouse has ever returned to their marriage or "fell back in love", b/c of shaming or punishing from the LBS.
That ^^ point is often lost here, in the midst of our pain/anger from betrayal...we are so hurt and so angry, we want to lash out. We want to blame and hide...
In my opinion, when someone is here trying to save their marriage AND they want to change/improve themselves...that ought to be the focus...
(and IF the "piecing" stage comes along, a whole lot of other issues can be addressed then...) Boundaries are for protecting Hoos, not stifling his wife. There's a difference.
Hoos, you have been brave and honest about doing your own work in your own sandbox.
I applaud you for that. You are a strong man with a humble heart, a level head on your shoulders, and a deep fatherly love for your children. That is what it takes to do this.
The reason I know in my heart of hearts that you are going to be more than alright, eventually, is b/c of the harshly rewarding journey you are making inward.
Bravo
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Last edited by Cadet; 05/10/1702:33 PM. Reason: Link
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
sorry