Lurker ready to ask for help with WW/WAW sitch!

[25yearsmlc]

Runrec, I want to commend you on the deep digging you are doing and the way you want to own your stuff. You seem brave enough to do the inward work needed to become the best man you can....and I want to applaud that.

I really mean that.

It's been almost a week since I posted and unfortunately things have completely changed. Friday night I was snooping on her cell phone logs (I know, I know) and called her out about a conversation I didn't approve of.

your wording is a little unusual. Was the conversation sexual, or wildly inappropriate?


The conversation turned into a fight, and turned into her declaring herself "done".


So, what would you do differently if it happened again? Or would you stop snooping, like MWD preaches?

The only snooping that makes sense to ME, is if it's a 100% certain deal breaker and then it's all over. Boom, mic drop.

But when you know there are things that don't quite make it black and white, why bother doing that, at this point?


At the end of the night, after all the fighting, she said she was 100% out and would be filing paperwork on Tuesday. I have made clear throughout the process that as soon as the marriage was officially dead (i.e. papers filed) I would be moving out immediately.

WHY do that and WHY tell her? And filing for divorce does NOT make it over. 1/3 of divorces filed in my state, fade away after 6 months b/c neither spouse completes the work to finalize it. They reconcile...

And please, Stop the threats....it helps no one. It reeks of control. And Even if it's how you feel, why tell her in advance and thus make it an ultimatum? It's clearly meant to intimidate rather than setting a personal private limit for yourself

She still relies on me a lot in the home, and hasn't had to feel the full effects of what me moving out would look like. She said she understood, and she was sure.


so it was intended as a threat...do you see what I mean?



I came to her on Saturday and told her how sorry I was for pursuing and snooping, and for all the hurtful things I said while we were fighting. I told her I knew she wasn't going to change her mind,

Can you try NOT to mind read^^^ or predict what she will feel or do? It's not really your place and it helps neither

but I wanted to make sure she knew that no matter what happens with our marriage I need her to be a positive member of my life. I asked her not to make any definitive decisions from a raw emotional place.

So you "know she's not going to change her mind"...and then you ask her NOT to decide, which is basically asking her to change her mind...

Sunday and Monday went extremely well. We spent time together, laughed, talked about everything EXCEPT the R.

YAY so staying away from R talk helped soothe you both...and then...


Monday night I decided to have one last talk with her before MC on Tuesday and laid out that I'm coming around on the idea of us being friends, and that I'd like to stay in MC with the sole purpose of reconnecting as friends, reversing our negative interaction cycle, and if any romantic feelings showed up then so be it but that wouldn't be my agenda. She rejected the idea and said she is just plain done.


DBing is about doing what works and Not doing what does Not work. Simple, but hard. As soon as you felt you had made progress by having a nice evening, you went in for more extractions from her.

Which teaches her not to trust the good times b/c the other shoe will drop and you'll want more than she is ready to give.


I told her I know how hard it is to believe that from me,

again, you are telling her what she feels/thinks, etc. Just validate her feelings (b/c they are hers) and own your own...not with an agenda, not with pursuit -but with respect for HER boundaries...which you are violating throughout.

Do you know what I mean ^^here?


but I wanted her to let me prove it through my actions. I asked her to give me one week to show her I was serious, and she said she didn't need a week. She is just done. I was devastated.

Just prove it anyhow. No promises and no "look at my actions/give me time to show you - again---OR I'll punish you!"

Just become a man only a fool would leave.

We had another major fight, and didn't get to bed until late.


back off big time. And please, PLEASE respect her stated wishes and stop pursuing her. She needs, at a minimum, space. I don't always say that, btw. But the more you push, the more you push her away...

HEY, put on a helmet now b/c this 2 x 4 will hurt a bit. But I have to say it to reach you okay?

To me, a lot of the way you keep coming on strong with carrots and sticks (your carrots are promises and your sticks are threats) it's coming off to me like a form of bullying.
You bludgeon her with your wants...

But this reads as if you are following her and not letting her breathe. One minute you pretend to let her go - only to try and extract a promise from her the next minute,

then threaten to leave the house/kids IF she files for divorce, (how would that help your cause at all??) and

then you issue another "boundary" of yours. It's mega pursuit, extreme inconsistency and a whole whole lot of control. Sorry...

You need to do the math of 180s...no talk about them.

"small consistent changes + sufficient time = change she can believe.



I didn't sleep hardly at all. She still wanted to ride together to counseling and for the first time in this entire sitch we took the entire car ride without me saying a word or even looking in her general direction. I couldn't bear to speak to her or look at her.


My emotions were so strong I didn't know if I would break down and cry or scream at her. I knew I needed to wait until we were with the counselor so he could help me.


Here's a thought I read on someone else's thread...
Ever wonder if you cannot control your own emotions, how you can order her to control hers with OM?

Once in the counselor's office I didn't compose myself near as well as I wanted to. I started to lose my temper and raise my voice, and our MC smartly asked her to wait in the lobby so we could talk one on one.

Runrec, you do know how "attractive" this^^^ is, right? I was VERY angry at my h 10 years ago (and I am again now!) But I learned 2 things that are so valuable...

1) my anger was totally ineffective in getting h to change. In fact I think he hid more secrets from me...it fueled his negative images of me...

AND

2) my anger consumed ME, and it made me sick. Someone said that holding onto anger to punish someone is like lighting yourself on fire,

to get smoke in their eyes.

In your case it's the opposite of what you need to be doing asap.


He calmed me down, worked some magic, and we were able to bring the W back in. I gave what was probably the most magical speech I've ever given to her. I explained to her how sorry I was and how these emotions over losing her can cause me to lose control,

Very glad the speech was a 180 for you, and yet I'm nitpicking as a reminder, okay?...

YOU are in charge of your emotional outburst, not her. Make sense?


and I'll never give up on us being in love again but either way she'll always mean everything to me even as a friend. I don't recall my exact wording but she ended up in tears (the good kind) and said she completely understands and forgives me. I explained to her and the MC how I understand how she feels, and I'm not saying she's wrong to feel that way.

My only reason for being apprehensive is that we're only 3 months from the BD, and I have spent the entire 3 months in varying stages of desperate pursuit and have given her absolutely no room to breathe or think.

I proposed a trial separation. I told her I would head out of state to stay with my parents. My dad owns his own business and actually is desperate for some help right now, so I can go stay with them rent free and get paid far more than I'm making now to work for him. This would relieve some of our financial burdens, give me a safe emotional place to work on my 180's and GAL stuff, and give her a break from me. This would also give her a trial run of what life as a single mom is going to look like without me available to help.

I proposed one month, but the kids are in school until June 26th and ultimately unless she asks me to come back sooner I'm going to plan on 6 weeks so I can fly back the week before they are out of school.


I've already let her know if she moves forward with the D I will be moving out of state permanently. I'm going to give her full custody of the kids, and I'll take them for summers and we'll switch up holidays year to year (if I remain out of state).

WHOAH....SLOW DOWN////OMG why are you deciding these things now??

What is your goal? Capitulation?

To teach her a lesson?? Man, I think this approach is so so going to backfire on you.

let life teach her a "lesson" - it's not your job.

Plus you are giving away time with your kids and leaving the home.

Have you spoken to a lawyer?


This will be another wakeup call


Wow, so yes you are trying to teach her a lesson with your "wake up call". Good luck there...why wouldn't she just manage without you and not see any of your changes?

The 6 week break was maybe a good idea (b/c you have trouble containing yourself)

but why on earth THEN decide "yes/no"?? Instead, You could move back in and then with actions (not words) demonstrate your changes, and become the man you were meant to be...and who she always wanted...how about THAT approach??


if she decides when I come back that she wants to move forward with the D, she will have to wrap her head around not seeing the kids for the whole summer. She's never been away from them for more than a week or two at a time.

This^^ to me, seems totally utterly controlling and punitive on your end. Not to mention ignoring what is best for the kids. Not attractive.

How are you going to care for them the whole summer? And she gets them for the harder part, the school year?

You don't think the kids or she will have any problems taking them away from their friends and neighborhoods

and then sticking her with the responsible side of parenting while you get the vacation part?


While I absolutely don't want to be separated, I honestly think this is my personal last resort technique.


Last resort is when you have tried all the other approaches which you have not done for more than a day. You must give an approach time and consistency and THEN monitor for results. You need to read the DB book again and not skim.

Not to mention this plan is not last resort, it's all about manipulation. You are not dropping the rope or detaching

you are trying to maneuver the outcome...


I wasn't handling the in house separation in a way that was attracting her back,

true...

but instead of fleeing and threatening that she MUST want you back (as you are now) or suffer the consequences along with the kids,

you could spend the time becoming a different better man and THEN showing her...

so this should help me to truly detach and focus on myself.


She'll either miss me and decide she wants to try again, or be validated in her desire to be divorced.


Way too simplifying. And To me this^^^ means you don't have to DO anything new or different (b/c you know, its too hard),

so you just leave and hope she'll "see the error of her ways" --b/c why? Money and housework??
I just don't see how this makes you look like a better husband for her.

If it's about how fun a dad you are, um...maybe...??? But most Disneyland dads are resented by working moms.

look, I just don't think you'll get the long term results you seek with this...


I told her that at the end of this trial period I'm not asking her to commit to the marriage. If she commits to counseling to save the marriage, I will move back home.


so you are not asking her to commit BUT I won't move back if she doesn't...

More conditions of yours....RunRec ^^^ this is so NOT last resort...Runrec, please consider hiring a DB coach. I found them very specific and detailed and quite helpful.

while I am now divorcing, I know my DB coach was a Godsend - and she helped me extend my m by a decade. She helped be become a better wife and mother too. I'm happier with myself b/c of this approach.

(My main mistakes were in Not piecing correctly, as I saw reconciliation as the "win", which its' not).

But you are simply not really letting the DB approach sink in. This all reeks of tactical strategizing and NOT authentic change in you, which will take months...

DIG DEEPER and realize the hardest journey in life is an inward one. It's the bravest journey.



I also told her that the 4-6 weeks isn't a deadline. If she's not ready to make a decision in late June we can extend the trial separation but I will be bringing the boys back with me if we're still undecided.

So there it is. I'd love any advice I can get, or being pointed to any resources on how to handle this next phase of my sitch. My thinking is to 100% stop initiating any contact that doesn't directly relate to the kids. I'll be cordial, but short on words if and when she contacts me for anything unrelated to the kids.

I will absolutely refuse any talks abou the MR. If she starts trying to talk about the R (very long odds), I have considered just politely telling her that I don't think it's good for us to discuss the R outside of counseling so if she'd like to get started with MC again I can make arrangements to come back early.

It will be SUPER easy for me to do GAL stuff because my hometown has more friends and cheap accessible activities than where I'm at now by a wide margin. I'll be sure to post about all the exciting GAL activities I'm up to on Facebook. That way if any interested parties are concerned I'm shriveled up somewhere in a ball, they'll have proof to the contrary!

At my age, I think this ^^ fb thing is high school stuff, and most DBers block their spouses. FB is (mostly) a series of high light reels that reflect only the best in lives, or avenues for stalking.

why not Just let her know of the family time (via the conversations with the kids perhaps??)

OR call and let her know what you've been doing with pleasant upbeat conversations that inquire about her day, and LISTEN acvitiely to her like the friend you want her to miss and do a ton of 180s...?

Limit the talks to 10 min unless she extends, always be the one to get off first, and be upbeat with a PMA and if you must ACT LIKE AN OSCAR WINNER...

PLEASE hire a DB coach because truly, somehow I feel like the plan you have is 75% the opposite of what would help in your situation.

Maybe that's just me

Any encouragement in the form of success stories after similar situations (WAS, infidelity, trial sep) would be much appreciated. I'm trying hard to keep my faith in God, and keep a PMA about our long term relationship prospects. Like MWD says, it's not over until it's over! She didn't file!

the success stories here do usually involve affairs, or WAS, but not all.

Success stories do exist. For a long time I was one of them. Regardless my time line for recon was 2 years, so was Bluewaves, and LITB's, and I think Sandi's as well, if I'm not mistaken.

so I can say no one solves these things in weeks. Your time line expectations are unrealistic imo

None of us is comfortable with uncertainty. But when you try to force certainty before it's time, usually you force the very result you do NOT want.