3.5 Months of Pain - Fork in the Road

[25yearsmlc]

anything guys?

See Bluwave's thread about her h and his 1-2 year OW and return.

If I recall, his was fairly sudden. Though my h acted as if he had not left us, (just checking out a job 2000 miles away...") he did suddenly beg us to join him asap and began calling almost daily and then sometimes more than once daily.

I think once his main task was complete, he looked around and wondered where everyone was...

[sellout]

DISCLAIMER: I am fully aware of all of the principles (180's, GAL, Detachment) and continue to work on these each and every day and doing a better job day by day.

My questions below may belong in another thread or frankly another website all together. With that said please let me know if any of you have had experiences with the following.

While each situation is different, what has been the consensus with some of these?

1. Deep down, does my wife KNOW what she wants or is she truly conflicted at this time?

2. Does she feel guilty spending time with OM?

3. If she ever decides to break it off with OM, should I expect/need an apology?

4. If she is possibly leaning towards wanting to reconcile with me, is she possibly scared of rejection from me since I am the one who filed for divorce?

5. She hasn't mentioned the pending divorce in almost 2 weeks (and there is a lot to talk about with it), it she intentionally stalling to give herself more time to decide what she wants?

6. At what point during the detachment process do I open the door a little more? Relationship talk, divorce talk, etc.. DO I refrain on having ANY of these talks until the day she tells me she broke it off with OM?

7. During some of my snooping (I know, not part of the plan), her phone records show she is talking on phone less with OM and a lot more with her mom. Does this mean anything?

8. We have yet to have a court date/meeting with attorneys: when we do this, will it get REAL for her and then she starts thinking more?

9. Reminder: three days ago she mentioned she wanted to take our son on vacation together this summer...is she "fishing" to see where my head is?

10. Other than the obvious (180's, Detachment, GAL), what else can I do to get her temperature on where she is in this? She may be over there in hurt/pain waiting on me to make the first move...probably not, but how do I find out? It seems there is a slim margin for error here.

[doodler]

1. Possibly.
2. Maybe.
3. That's up to you.
4. Could be.
5. Maybe. Maybe not.
6. Wait until she's truly remorseful and/or will provide a large cash settlement.
7. Possibly.
8. Maybe.
9. Probably. It's called "temp checking."
10. If you hump her leg and she just laughs and doesn't slap you off, then you might be ok. If she slaps you off of her leg, then you may still be ok, particularly if she takes you into the bedroom.

[EastTN]

You're missing the whole "detaching" part, man. Your questions are saying that you are still VERY MUCH in this.

I've been told over and over that this isn't about her, it's about me. People keep telling you the same thing. It's not about her. It's not about your M. It's about you.

Stop. Breathe. Breathe again. Then stop worrying about all of this. You have no control of this. None. You can't analyze your way out of it. You can't convince her to come out of it. Looking for little signs is going to kill you, and it's not going to do you any good, anyway.

[sellout]

EastTN - Of course i am VERY MUCH in this still. I wouldn't be on this board if i wasn't. Being IN THIS and detaching are not mutually exclusive of each other. I understand 100%. It's human nature however and you can't just flip a switch in these types of situations. Being analytical within yourself doesn't jeopardize anything with reconciling. Its natural to wonder.

Any others with ideas to my above questions?

[25yearsmlc]

Disclaimer...I am only speculating and don't think there is a lot of "consensus" but I'll give some of these a try.

DISCLAIMER: I am fully aware of all of the principles (180's, GAL, Detachment) and continue to work on these each and every day and doing a better job day by day.

My questions below may belong in another thread or frankly another website all together. With that said please let me know if any of you have had experiences with the following.

While each situation is different, what has been the consensus with some of these?

1. Deep down, does my wife KNOW what she wants or is she truly conflicted at this time?

Sort of irrelevant b/c what she "knows" is something that can change daily, (and that's assuming she thinks she knows.)

and If she is truly conflicted, she probably won't tell you. OR she will but will be met by argument, (which I think already happened in your situation.)


2. Does she feel guilty spending time with OM?

unknowable...I thought she said all was not well in her A and that OM treated her with kindness...and to me that spoke volumes about what you could have said instead of what was said...

anyhow There was a thread around here posted by an LBSer who had her MLC h post here (& yes they reconciled).

The WAH/MLC H felt -during his MLC - that while his Affair was "wrong" what mattered to him THEN, was that he was "just trying to be happy".

(I think in your situation your wife was unhappy inside the m and didn't know how to fix it or believed it was not fixable. Obviously I could be wrong)

In the MLC's h cases, He wanted to fix what was missing or inside of him, externally...

As far as his family, he also believed that he could "make it all up to them later" or that his happiness would soothe hurt feelings. I'll try to find that thread sometime.


3. If she ever decides to break it off with OM, should I expect/need an apology?


You mean if she wants back into the m or just breaks it off with OM?

Because Even if she breaks it off, I would not simply assume she will return home. So no, don't expect an apology for the A based just on that. She won't return to the marriage she left, unless she thinks it'll be a better and different marriage. Right or wrong, it's up to the LBSer to show the WAS that.

I suspect your w has justified the affair in ways you cannot imagine, and some of which may seem valid but too devastating to hear, b/c when we truly own our parts of this, it's incredibly humbling.

However if you ever make it to piecing, **which is not the same as reconciling

make sure you BOTH get individual counseling.

MC will not cut it alone, b/c you each have pain that does not all need to be shared with the spouse.

My biggest regret looking back, (other than doubting whether we should have reconciled in the first place - )

is that H did not work out HIS underlying issues.

His mom got sick right after we recon and so, piecing sort of got shelved.

Now I wish we had kept it as a priority, and that h had gotten some IC, b/c whatever it was that helped him justify the damage he did back then, eventually led him to repeat it now.

4. If she is possibly leaning towards wanting to reconcile with me, is she possibly scared of rejection from me since I am the one who filed for divorce?

Well, of course she is. As my DB coach said "Keep the road home, paved and smooth."

Doesn't mean piecing is or should be easy - but the idea of returning to at least try to reconcile , has to be doable. She must be able to imagine a better life with you.

She doesn't want her A to be thrown in her face the rest of her life, or have it hanging over her head, like the sword of Damocles. She probably does not want to feel as if she "owes" you too much b/c in her mind, at least at the time, she felt justified in having the A.

So if she's the only one apologizing or making amends forever, well, I'm not sure it'll go well for either of you.


5. She hasn't mentioned the pending divorce in almost 2 weeks (and there is a lot to talk about with it), it she intentionally stalling to give herself more time to decide what she wants?

unknowable. Not a bad sign but might be neutral.

6. At what point during the detachment process do I open the door a little more? Relationship talk, divorce talk, etc.. DO I refrain on having ANY of these talks until the day she tells me she broke it off with OM?


Not in my opinion. If you want to reconcile, see my above comments. Yes, to reconcile the OM will have to go.

But refusing to talk to her about the marriage or divorce, until your conditions are met, seems extremely unhelpful to your cause. She is not here trying to save the m. You are AND

She won't return to the marriage she left...


7. During some of my snooping (I know, not part of the plan), her phone records show she is talking on phone less with OM and a lot more with her mom. Does this mean anything?

unknowable. Possibly neutral, possibly meaningless, possibly good. = unknowable.


8. We have yet to have a court date/meeting with attorneys: when we do this, will it get REAL for her and then she starts thinking more?

unknowable

But please do not use filing for divorce as a "tactic" to wake her up or punish.

That seems like a game that has way too high risk and high stakes to play.



9. Reminder: three days ago she mentioned she wanted to take our son on vacation together this summer...is she "fishing" to see where my head is?


unknowable.

As a mother, I want to have as good a relationship with my kids as possible. This may not be related to you at all, or it may be.

Hopefully your improved r with your son and her views of you as a good father will soften her heart.

I know that seeing my h as an absentee father, has killed much of my love for him.

So if i were to see him involved with the kids in a loving (not manipulating) way, it would move me.


10. Other than the obvious (180's, Detachment, GAL), what else can I do to get her temperature on where she is in this?

temperature taking is the opposite of detachment. You filed for divorce. I don't know what to say about you wanting to "get her temperature".

I Understand the pain you were and are in. (I do).

Still, May I ask why you filed, since it seems you do not want a divorce?

She may be over there in hurt/pain waiting on me to make the first move...probably not, but how do I find out? It seems there is a slim margin for error here.

How do you find out - If you should make a move towards reconciling?

What slim margin for error?

You mean if you don't say the right words in the correct order,

you will 1) get divorced

and; 2) never reconcile?

Does it seem that simple? God, I so wish it were.

I'd need to know more about what you said when you filed. I read your thread awhile back but don't recall all of it.

I can only say one thing that I recall (& will double check)

which was a lot of angry judgement on your end, and a cry for help on your w's.

Please don't bother telling me that you were "of course" angry. Believe me, I get it.

(Me too)

I just discovered 2 things about my anger, in my situation.

It never ever helped bring h closer, and

it consumed ME...like a poison that intruded on my days and nights...


PS

between 6-12% of marriages are between former spouses. I have 2 in my family.

A divorce can be "final", but not...

[Thornton]

Sellout - here's my take.

No one here can read your W's mind. You know her better than any of us so I think it's safe to assume that if anyone could predict what she'll do, it's you.

I am very analytical as well. I will obsess and analyze things until I completely burn out. I want answers and I want them now. My mind NEEDS to make sense of things. It's my OCD that compels me to keep digging.

I'm slowly learning that it's not possible to mind read. If I or anyone else here were able to read minds, we would all be reconciling with our WAS, no?

You are overcome with emotion right now. You are hurting. You want the pain to stop so you are looking for things you can say/do/expect/guess that will make you feel better. It doesn't exist.

There are ZERO shortcuts, my friend. Surrender to the fact that you will not know all the why's/how's/when's unless W is willing to tell you. And that's assuming she'll be honest with you.

You're going to have to dig deep to find the strength to take the focus off of your W and place it solely on you and S.

If you can take the focus off W, you dramatically increase the chances of this thing working out for you.

You gotta let her go before she'll ever want to come back.

[Btrow]

Sellout,

Been (still is..) where you are, just a couple of months ago. Had similar thoughts and questions at the beginning, all of which were consuming my sanity.

It won't do you any good at all. My hair started turning gray. It's simply not healthy.

Listen to the good advice above (and try to take Doodlers answers with a grain of salt. He's just trying to put a tiny smile on your face. Humor IS healthy)

[sellout]

Agreed, but again hard to do. Can't just flip a switch after 16 years and stop caring about someone that was in your life all day, everyday.

[25yearsmlc]

i understand. Truly.

Can you answer some of the other questions I asked?