25 yearsMLC 10 years late I FILE part 2

[180Man]

Dang 180, I thought this post was on your thread.

Oh well...

Ahhh, sorry we got so mixed up with threads tonight. I was trying hard not to hijack!!

so it's too late to ask, now? Not to hammer the point too much, but damn...this is the cost of the secret. To be clear, I'm referring to the gay B, not the rest of the stuff your mom sort of knows but does not need details of.

Pretty much. Honestly, if I could ask him only one question I'm pretty sure my B's sexual identity doesn't even get close to the list. Not sure what question I would want to ask, but it's probably just as well since I'm not sure going through that mental exercise is going to be helpful or fun.

well, I asked d19 if she thought any of her sexuality was related to her poor r with her dad. She said "it didn't help." She had a boyfriend before but in any case, some will chime in about how being gay is not a choice. I KNOW THIS...she is also attracted to men, or was, so there's a preference in there somewhere.

Our older d also declared herself bisexual around the same time h left for his 2nd year away (Just checking a job out" - never admitting that he was missing her junior and senior years of high school),

When she came out, and discussed the boys she had dated, she also said "men have hurt" her more than women.
When both daughters told me they were not straight, (but they are very different and i don't mean to just lump them into one group),

I know for a brief day or so, it crossed h's mind that he might have played a part in their discomfort with men. Whatttt???

Not so much their attraction to women but for sure their fear of loving a man. I mean, they said that. This isn't guess work. But he couldn't "go there", way too painful and maybe, well imo, H is more concerned with how he is seen than whether he's done wrong.

That whole difference between guilt (you know you did wrong, even if no one finds out) and shame (worrying that others will find out AND reject you or see you in another light, is your worst fear, not the content of the action)....

That is really interesting and intense. My B had a girlfriend in high school who dumped him after a year or so, I think. I believe he also had some serious feelings for a girl in college but it didn't work out for whatever reason. Not sure why and I never asked. Based on what you're saying, I wonder if my M caused my B some sort of issues influencing his desire to be gay? Idk. Waaaaaay out of my wheelhouse! You H probably feels a whole range of feelings about this topic with respect to your Ds. He probably feels guilt AND shame AND fear AND lots of others. Not having had any kids I'm completely speaking out of turn, but despite everything else going on I'd say it's fair to give them the benefit of the doubt if you think it's reasonable to do so.

[color:#3333FF] Shame played/plays a huge role in h's life now more than ever. To hear his narrative of our m...we all know there are different perspectives but my God, his is WAY off of my kids and my own recall. S30 said h is mentally ill and I balked. S30 said "mom, look at him. He substitutes his reality for ours...good riddance to lunacy."

So 180...what do you think the role shame AND OR secrets played in your family? Is your gay brother close to anyone in the family? Does he have a committed partner?

I don't know him at all, obviously. But I feel an estranged loneliness for him. And since your parents never addressed what was under the rug they had swept things,

I bet you can see why your w's fears mounted. Maybe to her, the strokes meant eternally unresolved issues.

S30 may be dead on. But I'll tell you what...I really really wish I could call my Dad up right now and ask him to drive down here for a weekend and help me work on the house. I wouldn't need to talk to him about my M, but it'd be nice to have a Dad still, flawed or not. Two years ago, however, I wouldn't have seen it this way. I would have been pretty neutral with respect to my whole side of the family.

A lot of us learned what "not to do", but we tend to revert to it when stressed OR we do the opposite. H for sure either yelled or kept it to himself in his emotional backpack where he could seethe, then lose his $hit in a huge over reaction b/c it was really about things he'd been accumulating,

or he'd do what is called "Collusion" in which he'd complain to others about me or something I did or did not do, but never tell ME, the appropriate audience. I've pondered this behavior a lot. Here is why it's so destructive.

(And I'm not referring to a few minutes of venting to our peeps, which is normal and probably healthy). But the complaints that are never shared with the correct target, like your spouse or your boss, co-worker, is unfair to the target, and its disloyal. Ever wonder who spoke of your b's life, or your wife & you, lately?

I think H did it to get buy in from his bff, b/c for one thing, his bff is also MY friend and bff's wife is close to me. So he wanted to lay the groundwork for heading off to Alaska, and justifying nearly daring me to file. OR he just passively hoped others would pass on the criticisms and that way, h wouldn't have to own anything.

Either way, what a jerk.

The disloyalty of this^^ and the failure to show up for me when I was so sick, felt worse to ME, than anything else short of hitting me. (I filed before news of OW came out)

Some argue about how A's are the "worst thing ever, the biggest betrayal, most disrespectful" etc. I am weary and leery of black and white rules like that.( I mean, they can speak for themselves, you know?)

To be clear, yes I hate A's too. They're gut wrenching. I get it.

But I can at least I understand the temptation. (There's an appeal). Heck, 25 years ago I almost had an A. It was Desrt Storm and we were both Active duty. 2 little kids at the time.

I was so lonely, that it hurt. H was irritable when he was actually home, He worked 80+ hours a week, every week and there was no end in sight. One week I counted his hours away at work and it was 96, plus he read for a case when he came home. So he still wasn't present.

Those are insane hours and it's awfully hard on families too.

I still come close to justifying the A too, based on this^^^ his irritability when he was home, which was rare. I mean he wasn't exactly grateful for MY sacrifices, as he fell asleep at the table, often. The "almost A" was about MY PAIN and the temptation of an attentive OM, not my "disrespect" for h or the marriage. I think i did resent H for the situation sat some level, but not consciously.

But I digress...

Deserting a sick spouse, the one who bore your children, the backstabbing about you, that takes time and thought and isn't a momentary lapse. It'd be awfully hard to overcome this.

I TRY to imagine retcons just so I can say "never say never". So I can always say I'm open hearted.

But even if all the work in the world happened in h's heart and mind, even if he woke up and did all the work needed - I would not believe it to be effective till a few years had passed.

I flew to Germany in 2011 after my W had been medevac'd. We spent the next year in and out of doctor's appointments, I went to pretty much every appointment she had. She was facing a medical discharge. I was facing an 8+ month deployment and a W losing her career and living far away from our families while having medical issues. A buddy of mine suggested I look into the Guard or Reserves. Long story short, I thought finding a Guard/Reserve unit near her family would help us. I figured I could work for these guys and we could be close to her parents. A guard unit offered me a job. I was selfish in the fact that the jobs I was looking at with these units were going to be doing things that sounded cooler than what I was doing. The grass looked really really green for me then. W ended up being able to stay in and I kept doing what I was doing...but W always held it against me that I tried to jump ship and use her as an excuse to get out of active duty. That wasn't my reason to start with, but that's what it turned into. I was also scared of what the active duty side was asking me to go through at the time. The Guard job I was offered would have really set me up well for a civilian job. It WAS selfish, but it also wasn't. I still feel guilty about it. This is the opposite extreme from your H and we both screwed up.

*So maybe in your situation, maybe it really is a thing where you back off, each get space and touch base now and then...until she sees that the you were close and bonded, for a reason.

This is such a depressing and yet positive thought. My brain still has trouble coping with this new reality. I pray that you're right but I'm not sure I have the strength to make it through what you describe.

Learning what not to do, is helpful. I strongly believe that learning what TO DO, is more important. Why?

Because in times of stress, we revert to what we know OR we avoid anything remotely resembling it, too much.

G, a dear friend of mine, (H's bff) is perhaps the best h and best father I know. He's about 50 and he's always been a sensitive fair thoughtful guy.

G's role model for what Not to do, was his own dad. G's dad impregnanted his OW so that when G was 9, he watched his mom cry, his parents divorce and his father introduce the OW (now his W#2) as his new family. G was supposed to accept her without much time, and also welcome his new baby brother.

A few years later G's dad got a divorce and G was supposed to adjust again. His dad remarried wife #3, Sally. His dad and Sally remained married for some time. That's when I knew G's dad, and he was borderline weird. I recall him saying something like "Who wears the pants in this family?" And this was in modern times, you know?
Stuck out in my recall of course.

So fast forward a few years and Sally left G's dad. His dad just fell apart. I mean, he was very controlling and domineering and seemed strong,

but when his 3rd m fell apart, so did he. Eventually, after draining those around him for some time, G's dad took his own life.

Lousy, right? YES it was lousy. So how did G become the best dad/h that I know?? He sure knew what NOT to do, but how'd he learn how to to the right thing?

He found a few role models. He had a role model for being a good dad/h from his FIL, and he learned about fathering from his kids' coaches and he learned about how to handle stress from a deacon at church. So that when life threw him a curve ball, which it did, he had positive paths and options to choose from, that he already knew.

Last week there was a photo of G and his family on FB. Not a posed one either. Just them walking on the beach with their adult kids, and their spouses, and 2 grand kids.

I was happy and then mournful and then envious. I confessed this to them. I recall thinking that "it could have been h and me." So, 180, keep up your work for 2 reasons.

1) b/c it'll make you a better man. Period.

2) b/c your w might look your way and see that consistent changes were made, over time, so she can believe them to be real, and lasting.

She can come to believe only with time and change, that you guys are not destined to be your parents.

While you are at it, contrast any of those negative images that you can. If your dad was a fat sloth then you come the slim fit guy.

You get the point.

Hang in there.

Pretty awful story about G's F. I'm waaay past my bedtime so I'm not sure how clearly I'm thinking right now. Sounds like G found his own good foundation and flourished from there. My FIL is a great guy, but he's very very passive. Probably too far away to have as a role model, especially now. Haven't heard from him once since all this happened. He told my W that they love her no matter what and when she relayed this to me in December she was starting to get teary eyed. I think she was upset that her F didn't have the backbone to tell her she screwed up. Or maybe she was getting teary eyed because her F loves her so much regardless of what she did? I dunno.

Hope you're right on #1 and #2. Seems like her big hangup was our intimacy dying off. Not sure how to fix that.

Sorry again for the threads getting so blurred Have a good night!