So Confused and Conflicted (7)

[25yearsmlc]

Of course. That's natural. The downside is when it continues to deflect from our personal work, especially on things the WAS did identify as problems for them, in us.

25, I know of some things I need to work harder to change, but can you tell me what you think I need to change?

I have given you several suggestions about learning social and personal cues so your partner won't have to quantify the importance of requests and you won't then decide if you think it's worth doing -a lot of people gave you feedback about how you view your situation and tend to thnk it was all a misunderstanding.

I have said many times, her "complaints" as you call them were repeated and those are warnings that she sees need for a change.

You calculated it, rather doing it for love, and you miscalculated it. So it's not really a misunderstanding so much as a miscalculation

You took the risk that she would not leave you for doing X and not doing Y, even though you knew she wanted those.

Seems no matter how many times Sandi OR LITB, or Kaizen or I say this

you retain the same intractable position that she did not warn you.

You know your history and you know the warnings your w gave you that you - for whatever reason - did not heed.

I don't agree that my wife gave warnings about breaking up. In my opinion, she gave requests, not warnings. A warning, to me, would be "if you don't do X, Y will be the consequence" or "I need X in my life" or "I can't live this way".

I know you don't agree. You expected specific words to be used, I understand your that.

I 'm saying the words she used were in fact warnings FOR HER b/c She left.

So they must have been warnings, and now is not the time to argue semantics.


Wouldn't it be useful for you to learn about NOT measuring and quantifying the relative value of a "request" and try to love her as best you can?

When I say to "love your best" -do you think I want you too be a doormat? I don't. Being giving does not usually lead to doormat behavior...it usually results in the return of deep love in healthy r's.

I just want you to be more giving so everything is not measured. I think have a feeling she loved you very much. But she needed things from you that she did not get, and Wsh, maybe You cannot give her those? And if so, that's sad, but good to know now.

So maybe you need an introvert or homebody or a different type of w if your w's requests were too subtle OR hard for you to comply with, so you only wanted to give her things that mattered A LOT b/c it wasn't worth it to you otherwise.

I'm just throwing out ideas.

I wish I had treated her requests as warnings, but I didn't have the experience/knowledge to know to do that. I didn't heed them because I didn't realize the seriousness of them.

You have said this ^^ very often. So, what can you do to learn better listening skills and to pick up on cues?

To me, my wife acted happy. There isn't usually a huge need to improve a happy person's life. Hence the name, "WshIKnw". She did one time say, "if you don't give me such and such attention, then I'll find someone who will". I don't remember what the attention was exactly, but I didn't take that very seriously, because I just thought she would never do that, and she only gave an explicit warning like that, like once.

so even when she DID use words you say you understand, you ignored it and took the risk of "calling her bluff" This just seems like gambling and you lost.

For her to say those words, was a glow in the dark blinking red light WARNING...



So, I just thought she was making an idle threat or being semi-silly, especially when I believe it was over something semi-silly: she wanted to be tucked in bed (which means given some attention for a moment after she laid down, whether it's rub her back, just sit there a moment, read her a story, whatever), and I didn't want to do it that night.


You slept in separate bedrooms right? And she wanted you to come to bed with her...but you refused the type of intimacy that was important to her. Like refusing to have sex, really. To HER, tucking in or just getting a few minutes in the same bed, meant a lot-- it was intimacy any way she could get it, and you denied it to her so it's NOT silly.

she saw the porn as a cause of your lessened libido, so her social needs were not met, her intimacy and physical needs were not met fully at least, and I don't know what else to say.

You minimize your mistakes and her needs, and those 2 habits are the chronic problems that keep you stuck in place. Her needs were ignored for the most part, and you keep saying it's a "misunderstanding" & I want you to see that it's a calculated risk you took repeatedly.

She actually came out and pleaded for some basic physicality in the marriage and you said no. Because you
"didn't want to do it that night" I don't want to kick you when you are down but you must learn to see that this^^^ is her being clear and you ---- being ??.

Saying it was a silly or stupid request/need WARNING - is again minimizing her needs over yours. And it shows that even her warnings were ignored.

Can you admit a mistake without then justifying it? I'm asking, b/c if you cannot, that itself is an issue to work on'

maybe in your job you cannot admit any error,

but in real life we all make them AND we do Not learn from the mistakes if we always justify them

b/c then we are not really admitting a mistake, just simply saying we'd do the same thing in the same circumenstance...which is what your w probably fears...




It seems so stupid that this is the kind of thing that I lost my wife over. Everytime I hear stories about women leaving men, in real life, it keeps being over really serious things, like the man cheated, or wouldn't make a living.

there are far more complicated reasons and I don't think your w's complaints were stupid.
I think that you are AGAIN minimizing your role and blaming her for Over reacting and no matter how many times I or others point this out, you remain unmoved.
Unchanged...unseeing.

She wanted other people in your lives b/c you are a quiet man who likes to stay home and that made you her exclusive human interaction...

I think she felt hurt repeatedly by your relative low desire for her, which she knew you were getting your needs met with porn, so her needs were...NOT met and that is no small thing

You kept at the porn and didn't ML more, even though she complained about it and she said that you hurt her feelings about her body.

And you didn't sleep in the same bed - which bothered her and she made her feelings known....and you would not even cuddle or tuck her in

which would be so easy for you, but you "didn't feel like it" and that was after she said she'd find someone who would, if you could not do this one tiny important thing for her which would be a drop in the bucket of all the other things missing

her request sounds like a cry out to the world, so desperate, & your response sounds really self absorbed b/c that was a blinking red light of "I NEED TOUCH FROM YOU"


it's not a stupid reason to want out of the m, it's a desperate cry for help.


And I think back to how I did none of the serious usual deal breakers. And now, it's like "Man, my wife wanted so little out of me. Those things would have been so easy to do more of, without fussing, compared to losing her. Had I just given another 10% or 20% in all those little things she complained about, that would have probably been all she needed." And I would have done that, had I understood how much she needed or desired these things, before it was too late. Love wasted on the young and ignorant.

My suggestion to you, again, is to work on the things you know are valid b/c in the event she turns your way again, you'll be more like the man she hoped for.

I feel like the vast majority of her complaints are resolved simply by me realizing how much she needed those things, and by being reminded of just how important she is to me, how easy it is to lose her, and how she and I are not the same. She has different needs, that must be met, and a different love language that I must "speak". And there are a lot of things that I can't change without her around, like everything dealing with her not getting enough of any given sort of attention from me. There were a few things that partly had to do with me understanding the seriousness of the situation, but also had to do with overcoming certain problems of mine. Those things aren't just an issue of being woken up, but are an issue of overcoming adversity. I don't think most of her complaints involved that, but probably some of her biggest complaints did.