Here Again part 4

[sandi2]

Just keep telling yourself that "wants" and "feeling" are not actions. A plan of action is exactly what it says.......action. Although it is extremely difficult to separate it from what you want from your H, I believe you must. Your focus is completely devoured in your H's actions. ((TO))

Having a plan of action is like a "To Do List" that keeps us on track. It's like cleaning a dirty house without getting angry at those who made such a mess. It's like wiping up spilt milk for the third time that day, and doing it with a smile on your face instead of clenched teeth. Only, this is much harder b/c of the seriousness.

The C told me that I need to see H without anger.

Yes, and your H needs to see you without anger. When I was involved in an EA, I saw anger I did not know my H was capable of having..........and it looked very ugly on him. Did he have a right to be mad? Certainly! I'm just saying I did not want to fall into his arms and ask for his forgiveness when I saw that side of him. It just made the OM look better. If he had remained in that state, I would have left. These words from a former WW may not be what you want to hear, and that's okay. I am not taking up for your H, and will never support waywardness. I only want to share a little view from that side of the street.

You don't have to act giddy and walk around with a goofy smile painted on your face. Just aim to reflect a calm spirit. If you are a spiritual person, then connect with that source of strength to carry you through. As a Christian, the only way I could face the loses I've had the past few years, was through my religious belief. It gave me assurance and strength when I felt I could not withstand the pain.

I am praying for you and your H, b/c I care very much about your family.

[T384]

Thanks Sandi,

Is this a lost cause though? I feel because he's doing this a second time it's not going to turn around like last time.

So what is my action plan?

I completely understand what you're saying about him seeing me with anger. Why would he want to come back to that when in his mind he's doing nothing wrong.

I just need to know the capacity of this OW. I hate that I've done expressive searching and found nothing concrete because either there's nothing or he's covering his tracks very well. I'm sure it's the latter.

I guess I just don't get how he can continue to stay here while talking to someone else. Last time he left.

[25yearsmlc]

Thank you Sotto

It really was. I know I'm emotionally unstable lol ... I'm ready to release some of these hormones.

I woke up to H getting in our bed around 1am. It woke me up but I rolled over and just said goodnight and went back to sleep.

I'm just going to continue doing what I'm doing.

YAY b/c you know, you need sleep and LESS stress

[25yearsmlc]

Struggling to keep my mouth shut.
Went through H phone super quick like a minute this morning. No FB messages no text messages and went through the call log and he deleted the call he made to her Wednesday.

Do I say something? If nothing is going on why delete the call?

And then....T0 ^^^

if you were not so very near your due date, my advice would be different.

but you are so close, so - why why why can't you just REST....?

((( T0 )))

[25yearsmlc]

T0,

Just for a few minutes, please step back and OBJECTIVELY review what is below & ask yourself what you'd assess in someone else saying the things you say, below

Thanks Sandi,


I completely understand what you're saying about him seeing me with anger. Why would he want to come back to that when in his mind he's doing nothing wrong.


^^Great insight. So, why not table the anger for now?

You can actually be angry, LATER...


I just need to know the capacity of this OW. I hate that I've done expressive searching and found nothing concrete because either there's nothing

read this ^^^ again, b/c it means you MIGHT have a struggling confused h who is, in his flawed way, trying to connect with you...

or he's covering his tracks very well. I'm sure it's the latter.

But you are NOT sure. So, T0, read this^^...if a client told you this, what would your assessment be? What would YOUR advice to you, be?

.

[T384]

Not quite sure I get what you're saying 25...


I need Ann H who is not committed... who is showing me with actions he's not committed and with words that he's not.

so many words that come out of his mouth are lies. I guess that's why I don't believe anything he says. But his actions show me he's done.

[sandi2]

Is this a lost cause though? I feel because he's doing this a second time it's not going to turn around like last time.

I don't expect you to remember when I was concerned about you letting him return home too "easily". I don't recall a case that had the level of wayward behavior & destruction, such as your H previously showed, where a quick/easy reconciliation held in place. It's not a matter of making him pay for his actions. It's not even a matter of his remorse and repentance. There was not enough work on the inside of him. He did not have to "work" through his sh't and face his inner demons and heal properly. You gave him a second chance, and after very few MC sessions, he pretty much picked up where he had left the MR, IMHO. As time went by, he saw you as standing over him watching with a mistrusting eye, and he resented any criticism and accountability. Instead of him taking the initiative to seek professional help for himself, he acts out again. From where I sit, he is running away from the reality at home..........just like he did the first time. I think both of you fell into old behavior patterns, and he wants to escape instead of dealing with it. He is looking for a salve to put on his hurting ego. Let's face it, the most fragile thing in the world is a man's ego.

You are the type of person who believes in putting all the cards on the table, looking at what's there and then moving forward. I well remember your rush to move forward when he was ready to go back home. It's just my opinion that a lot more therapy was needed to dig up the root cause that made him run, and therapy for the destruction that he caused. You needed therapy in healing from the affair and all the terrible things he did to you and the boys, and guidance in how to rebuild with him. You each needed to know what the other one wanted in the relationship.......and how to provide it. That's why people need solutions!

Maybe what he needed was pushed aside, since he was the betrayer, and it was mostly about your wants & needs. About all I have gotten from his remarks were that he could never earn your trust, or measure up. In the haste to reconcile.........I think a lot of stuff got swept under the rug. Maybe not on your side of the street, but definitely on his side. The one thing I see with the first time and now, is he seem to have felt a lot of pressure.

He's not made the same as you. Instead of him taking more time to move back home and really get down to his unresolved issues in IC & MC............he jumps from living with his affair partner back to living with his W, relatively fast. Was he the one dumped by his affair partner? I want to think maybe he was. He was not alone very long, was he? And then it was like......wham, running back to his W & kids. What did he learn from that experience? IDK, I just can't help but wonder if he has spent the past few years trying to make up for what he did, without resolving his true issues behind it.

Is once a cheater, always a cheater? I, for one, do not believe that's true. I believe there are certainly those who do cheat again, and maybe for reasons other than the fact they are just plain morally corrupt. I know people can change for the better. It often takes something bigger than just turning over a new leaf. It takes mentoring, spiritual guidance, and/or therapy from a seasoned psychologist that focuses on getting to the core issues and finding solutions. My experiences with counselors have not been very good, however, I do believe there are good ones out there.

You are wanting to know the capacity of OW? B/c you think that will be your black & white answer as to what you should do? Is that why you are so focused on her? Will it be enough to end your M, or will you want to know "why" he did this again? Or, if it's not an affair, what then? Recently, I had a rather sensitive LBH tell me that things were not always as cut and dried (or did he say black & white) as I made it sound. Hummmm

I guess I just don't get how he can continue to stay here while talking to someone else. Last time he left.

What part are you questioning about "how he can continue to stay"? Surely you are not referring to his guilty conscious making a difference about him staying or leaving. Like all waywards, he is concerned about one thing most of all,........himself. I think you would be better off if you stop comparing this time with last time. I don't know if it's a lost cause. It's your M and the future of your family at stake. Sounds pretty heavy when I say that way. I didn't mean it to be a guilt punch. I just mean you are the only one who knows what you are willing to do......and what you won't tolerate. I do not blame anyone for not tolerating an unfaithful spouse.

[T384]

We did go through quite a few months of MC.... C signed off in us and we worked through how we got to the point we did but obviously didn't get to H deeper issues that he needs to work on.

H has spent the day with us. He has spent some time on his phone but I haven't looked his way or let him see I notice. We haven't talked much but he's been his normal self with my family.

I've had a good day with the boys. Part of me wants to experiment tonight and give him a kiss goodnight or something affectionate but then the other part of me says no to stay away.

I'll probably stay away... tomorrow we are taking the boat out and just hanging with my family.

Sandi- what I'm willing tovtolerate I'm unsure of.... I feel like I'm willing to do a lot to save my M but it also depends on OW. So that's where it gets fuzzy for me and that's where it messes up my ability to be light and breezy because it eats away at me just wanting to know if there is OW or not.

I sit here wondering if he's texting her while he's out with us.

[sandi2]

We did go through quite a few months of MC.... C signed off in us and we worked through how we got to the point we did but obviously didn't get to H deeper issues that he needs to work on.

Okay, I thought I had read where you attended a few. His issues may need individual therapy.

Part of me wants to experiment tonight and give him a kiss goodnight or something affectionate

My suggestion is not to experiment with physical affection, just yet. To me, it would be like running hot and cold. Just work on staying calm and peaceful for a few days, and not swinging from one extreme to the other.

[25yearsmlc]

T0

I would echo Sandi's point. As I said, I might give very different advice if you were not due to have a baby soon.

But you ARE due soon, and without concrete OW evidence in your face, (the kind you don't snoop for)

I'd just plan on seeing how much the baby moves tonight...

Also, with the benefit of hindsight, I'd say both parties in piecing must do IC, as well as mc.

Each party has to figure out their path thru, sometimes it's a lot easier to do without the spouse in the same room and sometimes it's easier for each spouse to have a T that is 'theirs...'and we need some sort of relationship barometers, not all about transparency but how "WE" are doing as a couple.


That EE workshop in Philly that I mentioned to you before-- (And our m was strong when I attended)...but I went alone first.

And because I attended alone first, I was much less inhibited without worrying about h's thoughts of my feelings.

I didn't edit my answers or rehearse my thoughts. I was free to discover things about myself. A good T can help you with that, and your h, no matter what.

Your h's indecision and present weirdness, IS a big problem. We get that.

I can only imagine if I had done damage to my family, how much harder it would have been to get MC with my h there too. Alas, your h is not here on this site now. Maybe someday...

So, back to you. Plans for this evening are??