Here Again part 4

[T384]

And OW in any capacity is a deal breaker for me

[Train]

Well, if you don't have concrete evidence, then you don't have evidence. Are you going to stop him from hanging out with the family because of your assumptions?

My point is: figure out your boundaries and, yes, "do-able" consequences if he crosses them. But don't come up with an actual boundary like that based only on your assumptions and insecurities. That would be weak. Does that make sense?

And I'll be straight with you: reading your comment about you not wanting him hanging around y'all if there's an OW came across a bit high-brow to me. You're not his mom or his moral authority. You're his W and the mother of his children. Even if you guys separate or end up D, he is still the father of your children, and he will be places with you guys all the time ... even if there's an OW in the picture. And I would caution you against ever using time with the kids as a consequence for his behavior. That smacks of you trying to punish him. That's not your job.

[T384]

Yes he's he father of the boys and I wouldn't ever stop him from spending time with him. However, he is cake eating by spending family time together and getting his needs met in that way and getting his other needs met by OW.

If he chooses to be involved with OW then he can by all means have time with the boys but not with me included - meaning spending time with my family - my grandparents for Easter this weekend. Going on my uncles boat with us because in reality if we D he will not come to those things anymore. He will create new things that he does with the boys if that makes sense.

If there is OW in any capacity - especially while I'm pregnant - why should he continue to have his needs met by spending time with our family?

Not arguing just explaining my side or my take on it. Why should he want tomdecided between be and OW if he can have both? Me with the family and spending family time together without treating me as his wife and OW on the side for his other needs

[Train]

If there was a definite OW, I might have different advice about him going this weekend. And I might not. I LOVED the opportunities for my H to tag along with the kids and me when he was gone last time. Nothing satisfied me more than knowing he was looking at me in a way he couldn't have me ... and OW was pacing her floors, worried about what was going on between H and me.

But that's just me.

You are practically beating on your chest about what you will and won't allow *IF* there's an OW. It was also you who said you have no concrete evidence that one exists. Soooooo ..... ?

[T384]

Haha I laughed at the beating my chest comment

You're right.. I guess that's true. H even commented the other day we talked on the phone for like half an hour how nice it was to have a conversation that was a normal us conversation with none of this other BS.

So I guess that should be my route. I wish I could for sure find out if there's OW. He keeps his new motorcycle at work and I know he takes that when he goes to lunch. I guess I'll have to go do some PI work next week if I really want answers.

I think tonight I'll plan on being gone with the kids when he gets home.

[Train]

Sounds good! Stay busy!

[sandi2]

I LOVED the opportunities for my H to tag along with the kids and me when he was gone last time. Nothing satisfied me more than knowing he was looking at me in a way he couldn't have me ... and OW was pacing her floors, worried about what was going on between H and me.

I love this ^^^^^^^^! Having this attitude is empowering, TO. It may grate against your pregnancy hormones and/or natural personality traits, however, you have seen him respond positively when you did not bring up the M or his issues or use punitive methods. Just saying, this may be the road to take, at least, until the baby comes......if you want to keep him.

If there is an OW he's talking to, and there has been no physical affair..........is it still a deal breaker? Just us girls talking here...........if you were wanting your man from the OW's clinches, wouldn't your instincts tell you how to do it? It would not be by crying and asking him how could he do this to you. Guilting and shaming does not work on waywards b/c they will just pull away and avoid even more. You have to "attract" a man. Even if that man is your H and he's being a jerk. You are waiting on him to do what you want him to do, and reacting when it doesn't happen. That's understandable, but it's not working b/c it is not attractive to him. He may not be feeling his "love" for you at full capacity right now........but you still have the ability to attract him. That is entirely left to you.

I understand not wanting him to eat cake, etc. I preach it to H's all the time. I do believe the way women go about getting their man........and how men go about getting their woman.......is not exactly the same. Besides, the fact your H is staying under the same roof, could be classified as cake eating, if he is up to no good with another woman. His question about seeing the relatives could be him trying to keep up appearances, but who knows. My point is, are you going to cherry pick what is cake eating and what's not? If you decide to tell him not to go to relatives, I doubt seriously if he gets your reasoning behind it. He'll just see it as punitive, and blame you for being sour.....or whatever. I don't know that I have ever given this advice to H's who have a WW, so I hope you won't be too confused. Bottom line is do what works! So far, what you are doing hasn't worked.

I think you are a very black & white, right or wrong, yes or no, person. You want a decision made right this minute, and if he can't commit, you are done. No half way, no separation, no waiting, just straight to divorce court. If that's how you want it, then that's how it will probably play out. With everything you have said to him, it has not changed his mind.

I may sound as if I'm talking out of both sides of my mouth, b/c earlier I said it wasn't you....it was him. I stick by what I said. What I am adding is what Train has said, which goes along with my suggestion from back at the beginning of this last go around. I think these little things (like visiting relatives) will continue to arise. Rather than sweating over what to do each time.......decide your course of action and use your play book.

If you want the man, then you have to show him some resemblance of the girl he fell in love with and married. I don't know how tight he's felt the rope, but I know men don't want to see an angry, demanding, woman who drills for a detailed account of his day....or him to explain his feelings and/or what he intends to do about it. I'm not suggesting you need to fall all over him, but rather just present yourself as though you are more that girl living next door, and he is observing you interact with your relatives and others. Showing your warmth and loving ways to your family is a way to remind him of what he will give up if he doesn't get his act together. And when you go home, you continue showing the same sweet behavior (having no expectations from him)............and never mention the things that will trigger another relationship talk. I can hear you now with questions about this and that, but it all boils down to what you decide is going to be your plan of action. If the above route is absolutely a "no way in hell", then fine........but figure out what you will do, instead of watching to see what he will do.

Here's the thing, I get you saying you want him to x,y, & z. You are waiting for him to start showing something that tells you he is not having an affair and is committed to the M. As I said in the last post, he has issues he is not sharing with you and maybe not facing himself.....or doesn't know what to do about it. He's unhappy, and like all waywards, he's acting badly and making things much worse Frankly, I do not have much hope that you will see what you want to see from him..........as long as this tension and anger is vibrating from you toward him. Hey, I'm not blaming you one little bit, b/c lord knows how I might react to the same situation. Your H is clearly in the wrong, and has given you every reason to be angry and untrusting.

With that said, let me add something else. There are few advantages to getting older, but one is learning through the years by observing, as well as studying the books. I have seen a few guilt ridden men return to the wife and kids. I cannot remember any who returned to angry, demanding wives. Yes, some couples had to take intense counseling to heal their pain and the MR. But what I am saying is that a mad wife is not what draws him back. Any type of attitude or behavior that has a brow-beating, parental tone is far from attractive. Plus, I can speak from personal experience when I caution any LBS about showing any hints of self-righteousness. I saw it in my H, and it almost stopped me from trying to reconcile. He actually told me that he had done nothing wrong. He may not have been the wayward spouse, but he had done plenty to get our M in the state it had become, IMO. When I saw the look on his face, it took all I had to not walk out of the door. I have seen some of this type of self-righteous attitudes on the board in past years from a few LBS who had a WS to return. I just encourage all LBS's to be careful about it. The fact that a spouse has not shown wayward behavior, does not mean s/he is without flaws. And, neither are they to blame for the waywardness of their spouse.

I am not saying to tolerate his cheating, or his hidden agendas. I'm not saying to live in fear of this happening again. I am telling you that you are not going to get from him what you want....the way you want it......with you acting hot & cold, angry & suspicious.. If that is why you continue to hold to this MR, then you are hurting any chance of him softening toward you. The more you say to make him feel ashamed, and the more you show your anger, the more calloused he becomes. Can you see it? Sweetheart, I have some traits I see in you and I know this is difficult to even consider, but I also know you can do it if you make up your mind.

Make a plan of action. Either tell him to leave before the baby comes, or give yourself a timeframe to see if you can try being civil to him until you go home from having the baby. Then after the baby comes home, decide if you want to give it more time, or if you are ready for him to leave. It is killing you slowly by riding this emotional fence about what to do........b/c you are measuring your decision on whether or not he immediately gives you what you want from him. You are not being unreasonable. And, if he suddenly lost his home and family, it might snap right senses back into his head........I have seen that happen.......However, not always successfully.

Don't decide on what you want, b/c you already know what you want from him. Right now, you need to decide your plan of action until you go home from having the baby. What will be your day to day behavior around your H until that time? Remember, this decision for the present time is based on YOU, not him. Does that make sense? What do you have to lose until you come home with the baby?

[T384]

Hi Sandi, thank you for taking the time to post to me. You are 100% right that I am more cut and dry when it comes to my thoughts on this. I can relate to some of H's feelings but my thought process is let's work on it and move forward. Let's figure it out and get on with it. Especially with me being pregnant. It hurts me that this man is capable of hurting me so much during such a vulnerable time. I feel it is very very selfish. This leaves me angry and resentful which I try not to portray but it drives a lot of my MR discussions and the need to have these discussions.

I'm also in a super difficult place as my dad lives with us. He and I have gotten into it a lot lately as he has been running his mouth to people and I am very angry because it is my business to share (which I have not) and not his. I heard him talking about H saying very nasty things and my younger son was around while he was talking to my grandparents on the phone. He and I got into an argument because I said I have asked you over and over not to discuss my business with others and especially not in front of my children. He lashed out and said he will talk about what he wants when he wants. I just walked away. I'm just frustrated because my dad needs to mind his own business and ultimately he is going to affect the boys.

I've had many talks with my dad, and I really don't share the details about what's going on with H with him. But I've told him that his hostility and negative attitude does not help my situation and that it is MY situation. Nothing that has happened has affected my dad's life minus him knowing I'm upset but his requirements and life has not changed. He wants me to kick him out and get a lawyer and asks me every single day. I told him the other day enough is enough. I am not ready to make that decision and it is my decision to make. I just want his support and I am not ready to end my marriage and him creating a hostile environment in the house certainly is not going to warm H's heart and it creates one more hurdle for him to think does he want to come home to that. I asked my mom to talk to my dad about my feelings because I feel he is being selfish. I know he comes from a good place but I have enough to worry about and I just need him to support me even if he doesn't agree with it.

I guess the contact with the OW would depend on it being a dealbreaker. If it is just talking back and forth and getting attention I may be able to move forward from that.

My plan is to just act as if, do things with the kids, not initiate conversation, and just enjoy my kids. I will share my plans but not necessarily invite him and if he chooses to come he comes. I haven't text'd or called him or asked him where he is. I am not going to act cold or angry even if he treats me like garbage. I will not ask him to sleep in the bedroom or make an effort.

I spoke with the C briefly today. I explained my hesitation to come next week with H. He really wants me to come with H. He said that H did not say he was done or even mention divorce. He just said that H is hopeless and feels miserable and doesn't know how to manage those feelings. He is shut down and feels beat down and accused 24/7. he does not feel as though H is cheating - and he knows everything I have found. He said he told H we need to continue M counseling and that H agreed and also agreed to IC as well. The C said he would support my decision to not come if that's what I want but that he really thinks it is important to have 1 session before I have this baby. He said we don't know how to communicate with each other because we are both hurt, angry, and resentful and we are digging a deeper hole each time we both open our mouth. He said H feels hopeless because we have no positive interactions between us. That he hates coming home because he knows its going to be an argument.

So I'm not sure what I'm going to do. Part of me thinks h isn't honest with the C about being done. The C told me that I need to see H without anger. He said even if it is something small he does that I should keep that in my mind versus what he's not doing so that maybe I in turn can be positive back toward him.

So I guess that will be my plan of action. I know what I need from H but I also know I'm not going to get that from him so I have to let go of it and accept my reality for what it really is. I would honestly just be happy to see H asking me how I'm feeling or initiating some sort of conversation like he did yesterday. I would like him to start sleeping in the bedroom even if there is no affection or anything like that. I did tell him Sunday when we had our blow out after he didn't come home that I would not be touching him again after he didn't come home Saturday night.

Anyway, I'm rambling. I'm not sure if all what I'm saying makes sense. I don't know why but I don't feel the need to have any conversations with H. Well at least for now lol... I really just want to focus on having the baby. I really really hope he will get it together enough to be present for the baby and be the man I need him to be. However, should he choose not to be, I have other plans with my family and friends. My grandmother from up north is also coming for 10 days to help and stay.

So Sandi, I'm going to work on not being cold and angry. I will not be a pushover, I will be present and happy regardless of H's behavior toward me. I will get ready for this baby and enjoy my boys. He needs to see what he will be missing out on. My heart tells me how can he look at the boys and I in the hospital with a new baby and think leaving is the right decision? But then again I'm not necessarily dealing with a sane person right now.

Today is the first day I didn't check the phone bill or how often he was active on FB. That's progress for me.

[T384]

And of course right after I post this I find a card from my dad on my bed when I get home with a very long letter inside that he is very sorry for hurting my feelings and he just wants better for me. That he has rage and many emotions inside seeing me treated so terribly. Now I'm blubbering like a baby.

[25yearsmlc]

((( T0 )))