So Confused and Conflicted (7)

[LITB]

Wsh,

This is what I gather from following your sitch. You tend to be stubborn and have difficulty listening. Yes, I know. One of your W's complaints. What have you done about it, because this isn't news to you?

You have enough advice in your threads to successfully overcome your sitch. Yet you repeatedly cycle the same behavior. You can't get out of your own way. The definition of insanity is doing the same thing over and over again, but expecting different results.

I read your last post. There is not a nice way to say that it reeks of excuses and playing the role of the victim.

If you want to influence change, the change begins with you. Otherwise, you will remain in a vicious cycle.

BTW, did you ever cut your hair?

[25yearsmlc]

what he said^^

Is my print font unreadable? I feel like my ink must be invisible.

[WshIKnw]

I'm not sure what I said that irritated you two, but I'm going to go back and reread the last several pages until maybe it seeps in.

[Ginger1]

You keep stating the ending of your M was a matter of a misunderstanding. You are minimizing it to an extreme degree. Your M did not end because of a simple misunderstanding.

Also, no matter what we say, you keep saying you should have known the severity of how she felt and that she was negligent in letting you know she was going to leave if you don't change. She let you know what she needed, you didn't listen. Please, in the future, don't only take action unless the consequences are severe. Take action BEFORE they become severe.

We cannot reiterate this enough. for any future R's.

[25yearsmlc]

Wsh

I feel like my last post to you was completely ignored.

I hope you will work hard on picking up on social cues, rather than expecting extreme mathematical clarity and quantification from a partner, about the relative importance of each preference and desire they have.

When we tell you that your wife DID make her needs known, you claim there was a misunderstanding.

I don't think it was a misunderstanding. I am very sorry to say that.

I think it was a calculated risk you took, every time you said "no" or refused to change.

And it was a gamble you lost. No one will ever ensure that they won't leave you or give you %.

You just have to LOVE AS FULLY AS YOU CAN, FOR YOUR WHOLE LIFE

and that's not easy. Believe me, I know.

[Ginger1]

Wsh



You just have to LOVE AS FULLY AS YOU CAN, FOR YOUR WHOLE LIFE

and that's not easy. Believe me, I know.

amen

[WshIKnw]

I just noticed that the Valentine's Day card from her for last year, said, "You're all that I ever hoped for in a husband." And she underlined those words with a pen. I have so many cards and notes from her during the last year of our relationship, telling me we're doing fine. For me, those cards and notes were like report cards, and I believed them. Can you see how this can contribute to me misunderstanding?

[LITB]

I'm not sure what I said that irritated you two, but I'm going to go back and reread the last several pages until maybe it seeps in.

We are trying to encourage change, however you keep resisting. It is more frustration than irritation.

What is different about you today than from when you first arrived here?

Looking back, are you able to track your progress?

What is your objective and what are you doing to achieve it/them?

This journey is filled with choices. For example, out of all the advice posted to you, you chose to look at us being "irritated". How does that help you?

These were some of my objectives:
-Get to my happy and healthy place.
-Become a better person in all of my relationships.(always a work in progress)
-Be accountable
-Learn how to forgive
-Learn how to set healthy boundaries
-Work on detachment
-Improve my communication skills.
-Yes, save my marriage(but I discovered I had to save myself first)

[sandi2]

Maybe this has been rehashed, but I want to add my 2 cents. You sound a lot my H, even not acknowledging something I have directly asked or said. Like you, he was not experienced in understanding the mindset of women, however, when I tried to communicate my feelings I felt that I was ignored. My feelings were hurt, and after years of this same pattern, the resentment was running deep to make room for newer hurts that would come.

I was just thinking about how some people have questioned why I waited until my wife threatened divorce before really taking her seriously. I did that because I needed to know how much she needed the things she was asking for, because I weighed those things, asking myself if they are things​ that are worth me making sacrifices for.

Please clarify if she was asking for tangible things she wanted that cost you money, or was she asking for things that would cost you time and attention. Why did you see giving her what she wanted as "sacrifices"?

I

don't need to give in to every single request of hers, do I? It's just really important to know how much the things matter to her.

It is difficult to give you a straight yes or no, when your question seems so broad. Look, I am the first to speak up and tell men to stop being a wimp and acting as if he is W's puppet and doing whatever she tells him. It creates a very bad dynamic in the relationship. Now with that said...........you need to clarify if your W was being bossy and giving you orders to accomidate her.........or, was she asking you for more of your attention and intimacy with her? These are two different areas, and to give an adequate answer, we need to know what she was wanting. I remember her wanting you to go out with her b/c she's a person who needs to have a social life........and she wanted her H by her side as a couple. If I recall correctly, you weren't interested in having a social life, and at some point she turned to online "friendships" that turned into EA. So, I would say that you should have taken her request seriously. I had the same problem with my H, and when you are young........at least some people, like to get out around other people.

Of course I would agree to do just about anything to keep her. So, it's important to know whether these things are things she requires, to stay with me. She would never tell me how much she needed the things she asked for. And I didn't have the prior relationship experience to know how risky it was to not know how important things were to her, and to not take ALL requests seriously, unless I was sure they weren't very important to her.

It will do no good to agree to do anything she requires, until you develop a few skills. Otherwise, as soon as you felt you safely had her back again.......you would fall back into your old thinking habits.

My wife would also never tell me when she was unhappy in the relationship. I always had to pull that out of her. She would just complain about things, and then act content or happy whether she got from me what she wanted or not. I never thought in a million years that she would just leave without warning. Unfortunately, I had gotten so comfortable that I had forgotten how I had to ask her how happy she was once a month or so.

So..........since she acted contented whether you gave what she wanted.......you thought it was just easier to ignore her request? As if, "she'll get over it".

I agree, you have a lot to learn about women and relationships. Personally, if my H ever told me he had thoughts about me that you have shared about your W's request..........I would be very tempted to respond in an unladylike fashion.

My wife would also never tell me when she was unhappy in the relationship. I always had to pull that out of her. She would just complain about things, and then act content or happy whether she got from me what she wanted or not. I never thought in a million years that she would just leave without warning. Unfortunately, I had gotten so comfortable that I had forgotten how I had to ask her how happy she was once a month or so.

Let me give you a clue. If your W is not an habitual complainer who is never satisfied about anything.................then take her complaint seriously! This is a woman telling you that she's not happy about ___________(whatever the complaint). If the complaint is about the MR or you..........take it very seriously. If you can do something to make things better, then at least try. If there is nothing you can do about it, or if it compromises your integrity, or whatever, then don't do it.

If your W is very immature and asking for things that are unreasonable, then of course you need to use your head and not place yourself in debt just to satisfy her request to have something. If she's wanting you to do something that compromises your integrity, then don't do it. If she needs something from you (not your pocketbook) to fill her emotional needs...........take it seriously.

Have you read any books on understanding the differences in the how men & women think?

[WshIKnw]

Like you, he was not experienced in understanding the mindset of women, however, when I tried to communicate my feelings I felt that I was ignored. My feelings were hurt, and after years of this same pattern, the resentment was running deep to make room for newer hurts that would come.

Sounds like the situation with my wife, unfortunately. How the heck did I last so long with her, with the way everyone here is telling me I was such an idiot?

Please clarify if she was asking for tangible things she wanted that cost you money, or was she asking for things that would cost you time and attention. Why did you see giving her what she wanted as "sacrifices"?

No, she never wanted anything expensive, pretty much. It was quality time, attention, diligence, help (like with chores), and for me to get out of my comfort zone -- those were the types of things she wanted. When I say "sacrifice", I mean any of kind of giving or loss on my part, from the smallest thing to the largest thing. For example, at the time, I saw sitting around with the husbands or her friends making small talk as a waste of time. I wanted to be at home working on my hobbies, instead, or doing something else that seemed like time better spent. Now, I don't see it that way. I don't want all my eggs in her basket. I have seen what a risk that is and all the pain that comes when she is all of a sudden gone. I also don't want to spend so much time wasting away on a computer. I want to be able to relate to other guys, in ways that only a guy can relate to me. I want guys that will come help me out with things when I need them.

I did give her time every single week night, for a few hours. I'd come home from work, I would spend all that time with her until she went to bed, around 9 or 10, and then I would stay up until about 12 or 1 doing my hobbies. I had a later work schedule at the time. So, this worked. I would fairly often do things that she liked for me to do at bedtime, like read to her or rub her back. I did things for her. And, no, (to some of the others that asked) they weren't only things that I either didn't give up anything for, or did only because I didn't want her to leave me. I did stuff for her all the time. She asked me for things all the time. I never hardly asked her for anything. I was easily satisfied, I think. Or she was just very giving. Not sure which. Maybe both are true. I also spent a considerable amount of time with her on the weekend. I pretty much stayed away from solo hobbies until she went to bed at night. I felt guilty if I was doing stuff by myself during the day while she was around, where I could be doing stuff with her, because I knew how much she wanted to spend time with me, and I wanted to spend time with her, too. You guys are making me out to be worse, I think, than I was. I do know I made a lot of mistakes.

If I recall correctly, you weren't interested in having a social life, and at some point she turned to online "friendships" that turned into EA. So, I would say that you should have taken her request seriously. I had the same problem with my H, and when you are young........at least some people, like to get out around other people.

Right, except that she started a new job in the summer, and met a guy there that was "very nice", "old" (3 years older than me), and had an "awful wife, that didn't do anything for the family" (if you look on her Facebook page, she has a lot of pictures of herself spending time with her kids, many of which don't seem to have OM around).

I definitely should have taken her requests seriously. I realized that immediately at bomb drop, but she didn't care at that point. Yeah, my family has told me that as people get older, people don't tend to care as much about socializing -- that after about another ten years, my wife would chill out some on that, probably, but, oh well..

It will do no good to agree to do anything she requires, until you develop a few skills. Otherwise, as soon as you felt you safely had her back again.......you would fall back into your old thinking habits.

Yeah, I definitely need to read more books on the differences of men and woman. I've got Men Are From Mars, and Brain Sex, that I will definitely read. And I've read enough of The 5 Love Languages to get the gist of it, but I will finish reading that. I forgot that just because I receive love primarily through physical touch, my wife doesn't necessarily receive love as much that way. She doesn't. She is about quality time and services. I have studied a lot of material from a guy named Reb Bradley, as well, about how to be the "ultimate" husband. I found his material very insightful. I also have great books on being an attractive man (mostly personality-wise). I started re-reading those. Are these the types of skills you are referring to, Sandi?

So..........since she acted contented whether you gave what she wanted.......you thought it was just easier to ignore her request? As if, "she'll get over it".

I'm not sure what my thinking was. I think it was that I didn't think her requests were as serious as they were. I think I was confused by her acting happy most of the time, whether I did things she wanted or not, and also confused by all the cards and notes that I got from her telling me we were fine, and that I was doing a good job. I got some notes also where she would complain about things, and she would also sit down with me to talk to me about things she didn't like, as well. It just left me with this idea that we were a lot better off than I guess we were. And so, I was so blown away and confused when she told me she wasn't sure she wanted to be with me anymore, and started freezing up. She had just given me one such "we're doing fine" (the general idea of it) anniversary card, a few weeks prior to shutting down towards me.

I agree, you have a lot to learn about women and relationships. Personally, if my H ever told me he had thoughts about me that you have shared about your W's request..........I would be very tempted to respond in an unladylike fashion.

Like, which things? What are the worst things that I have said? I need to make sure I don't say them to her, if I haven't already.

Let me give you a clue. If your W is not an habitual complainer who is never satisfied about anything.................then take her complaint seriously! This is a woman telling you that she's not happy about ___________(whatever the complaint). If the complaint is about the MR or you..........take it very seriously. If you can do something to make things better, then at least try. If there is nothing you can do about it, or if it compromises your integrity, or whatever, then don't do it.

Yeah. *sigh* That's been one of the big lessons that I am learning a very hard way right now. I would usually try to meet all of her requests. I just wouldn't always try hard enough, especially later in the marriage, as I felt more and more secure in the marriage, with each passing year.