So Confused and Conflicted (7)

[WshIKnw]

And no, all women can not just shut off feelings like a light switch. I certainly can't. And those WAW I know didn't. It was years of them saying what they needed, their husbands not doing anything about it, and they protected themselves by detaching because they felt so hopeless.

I just wanted to respond to this really quickly. I will probably respond to other things you said later. This is how I would say that her happiness and love towards me seemed to be over the last 8 months or so.

70 to 80%?
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[25yearsmlc]

I'm not sure how to say this. I wish you could see that your comments about how you missed her signals but that's not really your fault b/c she should have made it clearer OR you are simply not experienced enough to know..

but you admit you put her desires and their intensity into an equation, weighing whether it was worth it to you to do it, even if she repeatedly made those desires known.

Then that seems to lead you to saying how she should have done something differently or made something clearer. And or that women should be clearer but...

When women (and some men) tell you that what you're saying is that you'd pretty much only do things for her if you thought you might lose her otherwise, or if it wasn't very important to you, and it's her fault or the lack of clarity in the female gender, you don't seem to hear what we hear.

I'm not saying you were a jerk h. I'm saying that you still seem to be, effectively blaming her or her being a woman, for the way you treated her.

And I cannot see how that helps you now.

Plus, you said you want to learn from this. That makes sense. So how will you be different in your next r?

I worry that you will say you'll "check in more often" with them about their happiness quotients.

What about learning how to read them, without quantifying their satisfaction?

Just a question.

[MoveFrwd]

I just wanted to respond to this really quickly. I will probably respond to other things you said later. This is how I would say that her happiness and love towards me seemed to be over the last 8 months or so.

70 to 80%?
-------------.........____   <-- switch flipped (around BD)
                          .
                          .
                           .
                           .
                            .
                            .
                             .
                             .
                              .___________________________ 0%

One visualization that helped me when I was back wondering what hit me was this.

Imagine your wife as a lake. Now, imagine that it starts freezing from the bottom up. Slowly over the years, the disappointments she feels and the hurt she feels from your relationship cause the water to continue to turn to ice slowly starting from the bottom. Now, by the time that you notice this large body of water is almost ice is not going to be until that top layer freezes. Then youll say "oh my gosh, this lake is ice overnight!" but in reality, it had been freezing all along without your noticing.

What you are suggesting with these checks is to periodically check for ice. Run a pole down and see how much ice there is. To me, thats like lifting a lid to check if water is boiling or opening an oven to see if the food is finished cooking. The act of checking just reverses what youre trying to check. INSTEAD, you should work to learn how to heat the water to prevent it from freezing in the first place.

I hope this will help you to understand. This is not something that you are gonna be able to correct with your W quickly. Little texts every day are not going to thaw the entire lake. Thats like going out onto the ice with a hair dryer - I dont see that really being an effective long term plan. Instead, you need to give her the space and time to thaw back out. In the meantime, you need to become the man that will keep whatever lake you team up with next time warm. Who knows, by the time you learn those skills, you both may be interested in giving it another chance.

But I dont think you have a chance of reconciling successfully without learning those skills or without giving her the time and space to thaw back out.

[WshIKnw]

Thank you for the hopeful message, Kaizen, whether there is any real hope or not. My dad also has not liked my "checking in" strategy. But it was all I had with her. I was lost without it, because I couldn't read her. Without it, how do you ever know when you are doing enough?

[MoveFrwd]

My dad also has not liked my "checking in" strategy. But it was all I had with her. I was lost without it, because I couldn't read her. Without it, how do you ever know when you are doing enough?

I hope by now, with the words of 25 and Ginger, you can see that this is not really an effective relationship tool. I guarantee that you will need to be better at picking up your next partner's social cues and learn how to better understand what it means to be a partner in order to have a successful relationship in the future. I know for sure that your W isnt going to want to come back to the same marriage to the same guy.

You say that you were awakened 9 years ago when she almost left. It took 9 years for you to fall back into old habits, I think. So it's clear that you didnt retain the lessons that you learned the first time. In my opinion, thats because your goal then was to 'keep' her and not to grow as a man, husband or partner. I feel confident in saying that if your whole effort is again to 'keep' her, then some time down the road, you will grow complacent or lazy again.

So, now, its time to focus on YOU. What can YOU do to grow? This time in a way that is lasting.

THATS why everyone is harping on you to go out and GAL. I believe it is the first step to learning those skills that you need.

[Ginger1]

Everyone responded to you with some very helpful points.

Major takeaways: for you to be willing to take action, her needs should not need to be quantified in order for you to meet them. That shouldn't be your determination on whether or not you should meet them.

I do think you should take an inventory on what she was asking for, and if you could have met them and if the "sacrifice" was so much that it could only be done if it was a deal breaker. I would weigh on your end, not how much felt she needed them, but how hard they were for you to give. That's really the only thing you need to measure out. Why were you not willing to meet them unless they meant the end of your M? Do some work on YOU and why you felt this way about what she was asking for.

You have mentioned you had no friends and she was your world. You also mentioned how she saved you from your introverted self. I think that perhaps by now spending time in other social situations, you are missing social cues. It's not a man vs. woman thing with your wife, it's more of missing social cues. No one will detail exactly what, how much and how important of things they want. In all sorts of relationships, not only romantic. Maybe fostering a few friendships or social avenues will help you read people a little better.

[Ginger1]

I wish I could edit. Ugh.

[25yearsmlc]

First, I also really really wish we could edit!

Second, what Ginger & Kaizen & the other posters...please take this in.

I might be overly sensitive at the moment, but I sense a resistance to what women tell you here. As if we are to be lumped into the "female brain" and cannot possibly understand your point of view. But we do.

I grew up with 5 brothers, I was close to my father, raised a son, worked with mostly men, & I am very social. I'm an extreme extrovert and I know that's just different for you. I pick up on social cues pretty well.

If I could only give you one suggestion here, it would be for you to work on picking up on social cues. Verbal, facial, physical, and written, etc.

(Learning the love language of the person you marry, & giving in their love language, too.)

It's not all about how you lacked experience in a dating relationship. You have an IC now, so why not explore this?

We are not here to bash you. Even when we check you and guide you back, it's b/c we want you to improve in your next r, especially if it's with your w. For you to become your best most loving & thus, more loved, you.

That is so much more within your control than you seem to realize. Push yourself harder.

Because something is hard, does not mean we should not do it.

I've come to believe most of the best things in life are very simple AND very hard.

[LITB]

Wsh,

You are getting some of the best advice available anywhere for your sitch. Remember, your perspective is different than your W's reality.

What you didn't know before is not a crutch to hold you back. Your W's actions are presently clear. More importantly, your path should be clear.

What you do with what you now know, is up to you.

[WshIKnw]

Remember, your perspective is different than your W's reality.

That's the whole problem, LITB -- this is the ending of a marriage based on misunderstanding. It's a shame.

Your W's actions are presently clear. More importantly, your path should be clear.

Her actions make it clear that there is a serious problem with our marriage, but only she knows what's going on in her mind, and she might not know for sure what she thinks and wants. I wish her actions before would have been strong enough to let me know there was a serious problem with the marriage, while I still had the chance to do something about it. I guess I should instead say that I wish I had understood her actions.

I can definitely see how GAL should be a very large part of my path. The whole no contact thing with my wife, though, I'm very skeptical about.

What you do with what you now know, is up to you.

I'm still very confused and conflicted. I still can't believe she did what she did, and did it the way she did it. I'm also still very torn on what to do, in some ways. It's amazing how I went from thinking I knew pretty well how to be successfully married to this girl, to feeling like I didn't know much of anything. Now I'm at least aware of my ignorance, and aware that just because I can't imagine a woman leaving me, that doesn't mean that they won't at a moment's notice. A marriage takes a lot more work to keep up than I was realizing in those last few years.