The first thing you need to ask yourself is this and I believe you already know the answer due to having stated it: You know your wife is involved with someone else, so can you trust her? Can you 100% fully trust her? If she goes shopping and gets "held up," or is "running late" or whatever - will even a smidgeon of a doubt enter your mind? And, if it does - then that is no way to live.
Take this time to work on yourself. Maybe ask yourself is the reason you are trying to hang on so hard is for purely selfish reasons and not the bigger picture. An affair is the ultimate disrespect a spouse can do.
No I cannot and do not trust her 100% at all and yes I have constant doubts. I see it all day long that she is on facebook messenger which usually starts not long after I leave for work. Then she is off and on all day long until I'm expected to be home and then she is off again. I know that isn't a reliable method to trust in but just another thing that creates doubt.
I do hold on a bit for selfish reasons. I do truly love my wife. I do not want to put the kids through divorce. I do know there is hope for us. I do know that she is struggling with her own internal battles (MLC probably, feeling of not doing more with her life (her words), etc.). I AM trying to be supportive but not sure if it matters.
One thing I failed to mention is that I have been biding my time. Starting on the 22nd of this month she has 8 straight weekends of yoga certification training. Essentially it is 14 hours days on both Sat and Sun for 8 weeks that she will be out of the house. Leaving at 6AM, driving an hour, 12 hours of training and then another hour back home.
I am wishful that this may serve as an awakening call to her. She claims to want to make no decisions until after this time. Maybe that's her way of keeping me on the hook so to speak but I plan to use this time and dedicate it fully to my boys.
One other thing I should mention is that she may feel a bit trapped in our marriage. She has absolutely no income other that from me. I'm not using that as leverage, only saying that I hope that isn't the one thing that keeps her holding on to me. Her parents live very close to us and have space so she does have another place to stay if push comes to shove.
Does it make sense at this point for me to do the following per your advice or did I already miss the window of opportunity? Secondly, can I use these methods although she has already told me that ties are cut with the OM...most likely a lie though.
Your post below...
Top Notify #2545691 - 03/08/15 03:10 PM Re: For Newcomer LBH with a Wayward Wife [Re: HeavyD] sandi2 Offline Member
I believe the ultimate loss that finally breaks through and cracks her hardened heart, may be something the H had not even considered or ever know about (if he was trying to create some of the loss). It may be an accumulation of losses. In short, it has to be enough to humble her. That word may sound offensive to some, but it is as true as I know how to say it. I'm sure all of this I am posting is contrary to what a lot of the softer approached DBers like.
IMO, the H can be instrumental in overseeing the losses connected to him, however, he needs to be careful, especially if he has controll issues. His objective is not to control or punish her. With his own intense hurt, I think it could be easy to mislabel his true motives when executing particular losses. In the past, there was a LBH on the board that I felt crossed the line and was giving advice in how to manipulate every area of the WW's life. It sounded more like bully tactics to me, and what I saw as making the road back home anything but smooth.
I stand on tough love toward a WW in an A. However, I believe it is much more effective to use the "let her go" method, and let her believe she is the one being dumped instead of her giving you the boot. I say this from the VP of a woman......and former WW. If men would do this as soon as he gets the bomb, it would speed things up dramatically. Every WW who has come to this board has said when her H dropped her.....that cracked her A fog.
The first loss the wayward should experience is her H. When everything is laid out and she starts with the usual BS of not seeing a future with him, etc., he should start immediately in pulling away. He needs to do it to the degree she feels his absence in her everyday life. And it is important that the H does not make any grand announcements about his intentions. He doesn't talk. He acts. He doesn't tell her what he's doing, he just does it.
* Immediately separate the sleeping arrangements, by putting her things out of the master bedroom. No discussions, he just takes her things out of the marital bedroom. Let her figure out where she will sleep. The H's message is he won't sleep with a cheater. The H is not to take the lesser desired room or bed. No moving down to a basement, out in the garage, on the couch, etc. He is not the unfaithful spouse. He should not act as if he is the guilty party, sneaking around to sleep on the couch and keeping it a secret from the kids. It is her problem, let her deal with it.
*Immediately stop all contacting throughout the day. If there are any decisions that need to be made about kids, school, babysitting, pickups, etc,. Tell her to get it straighten out the night before and no texting him about details later. (He is not to explain that he is going NC, etc.) He completely withdraws his part of the texting, emails, and calls unless it is urgent. He is not to use the kids as an excuse to contact her. She needs to feel this loss. He is not being available at her fingertips.
*Immediately stop all the little things he use to do for her as a loving act of service. Taking her coffee, servicing her car, cooking her breakfast, carrying in the groceries for her, washing her clothes, cleaning her messes, etc. If she asks, he should just look at her and say, "Really?" (Now, if she really cannot lift the bags of groceries, he can help, but the point is for him to withdraw volunteering those little things she took for granted).
*Immediately stop engaging in R talks, b/c when he gets sucked into one of these talks......it shows her how badly he wants to hang on to her. The message she should be getting is that he is not interested. Do not even try to initiate small talk. If she initiates small talk at the dinner table or in front of the kids, then he should respond in civil but few words. His talk should be more focused on the kids and perhaps their scheduling for the following day. He is not to reveal details of his GAL plans during any of these conversations, other than saying he will be out. If she asks any questions, he should simply give her that incredulous look that says, "Seriously?"
*Immediately withdraw his physical presence from her as much as possible. He should spend time with his kids, of course, but not alone time with her. He should not engage in usual family events, celebrations, etc. It is better the kids be disappointed for a shorter period of time than a lifetime of hurt.
*Immediately withdraw all physical affection. No hugs, kisses, pats, cuddling, snuggling, or spooning. Remember, she is having an affair. The H is not in competition with OM. He will not score points by giving her affection. Withdrawing affection will be noticed by the WW. What I have noticed from the majority of LBH'S is how it's him that has the problem withdrawing the physical touch. He cries about how hard it is and he misses her closeness. He has to stay really focused, especially when she starts to tempt you sexually. This is entrapment!
*Do not recognize her birthday, Valentines, anniversary, mother's day, or any other holiday by giving her gifts. Are you kidding me? She is cheating! She has said she isn't in love with him and doesn't see a future together, and he wants to set her on a feather pillow and treat her like a princess b/c the calendar and our commercial society has brainwashed us to buy something on those dates?
The H needs to think of what he would have done in a dating relationship where the woman was cheating with another man. Would he chase, plead, serve, constantly text, email, write love letter, send songs, have flowers delivered, and give gifts to anyone who treated him like cr@p? Would he hang out at her place every evening, hoping she might notice how great he is? Would he try to kiss and snuggle with her when she's made it obvious she is interested in another man? Marriage is not dating, but the man-woman dynamics do not change. Why do men turn from being the self confident male he was before M, into a soft- passive-clinging-fearing-doormat? This is so unattractive to all women.......single or married.
*The H should stop paying for anything that enables her to continue her A. Paying for her cell phone, buying gas for her to go "out", paying for her beautification (hair, nails, plastic surgery, spas, etc.). No financing any of her trips, whatsoever. If W has her own income, he should put the savings account in his name (minus whatever amount she may have contributed) and start his own private checking account. The message to her is that the financial security that wa once available for her access has been limited, and could be stopped altogether.
As a result of these actions by the H, the WW experiences loss of the H's availability, his presence, his intimacy, his physical affection, his meaningful conversations/interactions, his attention & closeness, his acts of service, his words of love & affirmation, quality family time, and his financial assistance/support. If he will do all of this together, and if he would do it immediately, she will experience the loss. It doesn't guarantee to end her A. In fact, b/c she feels loss of control, she will play a lot of games to get it back. She wants the security that was provided to her, but she doesn't want to give up the A to have it. That's her selfishness leading.
Men get confused and say, "But isn't this more of the same behavior from me?". IDK, but I know that the difference here is what she wanted back then.....and how she feels now. Your motives and attitudes were different back then, from what they are now. Nothing about this will be more of the same. The dynamics have changed.
The H needs to be extremely strong and confident. He cannot backslide and have sex when she comes on to him (game playing) b/c it will put him back at the start position again. Who wants to go through it again?
How long he remains in this stage of DBing is up to the H. However, he should not end these detached actions and just go back to being as he was before she dropped the bomb. He may not quickly see true evidence of positive results from the loss he has caused her. WW's are very crafty. They will play on every emotion the H holds (guilt being number one). In his desperation to see some "sign", he often falls for her little game of manipulation. Even though she has said she no longer feels anything for him, he will use all her feminine wiles to keep him in her control. Things usually get much worse before they get better, and he will need to stand taller and stronger. It may take a physical separation before she completely faces the full impact of her reality. The H should not fear a separation, nor try to talk her out of it. He should not help her with any of the process in getting set up in a new place for her.
Hi Derek, Sorry you are here, but welcome. I'm not going to comment right now on what I think is going on with your wife, because I am feeling very negative today and don't want to project my own feelings onto your situation. That said, I'd be VERY skeptical of the excuses she gives for where she is during all that "shopping" time though-does she come home with lots of full shopping bags to show? Just saying, if it seems suspicious, there's usually good reason. I'll write more later when I'm feeling more optimistic, and offer you some encouragement as you travel this road. But I did want to say hi and welcome, and that you will find some great people here.
M-60 H-51 M-14 years BD 12/26/16 S 1/1/17
"First the pain, then the rising." Glennon Doyle Melton
So sorry you are here Derek. This place can be a great support place.
Originally Posted By: DerekM
Yes I've been trying to work on myself Just curious, what does this^^ mean?
and this I understand completely. It isn't easy though as right now it is tough to be motivated to do much of anything. I ensure the children are cared for but that makes it tough to find time for myself. I would urge you to hire a sitter for your GAL activities, which will help YOU for sure, and perhaps more...
When we do have relationship conversations, which is rare, she keeps telling me that I am making a mountain out of a molehill and that things aren't as bad as I make them to be. I try to paint the picture I see from my end and tell her to put herself in my shoes but that obviously isn't much of a concern to her right now.
well, you have to set a boundary that you are willing to enforce. What is that boundary? How will you enforce it? My one piece of advice
Do NOT set a boundary you are not willing to follow through on. You will lose whatever leverage you have here. And I think you have some b/c she knows you are a good provider and father and that DOES matter.
But don't argue your case; it's falling on deaf ears.
M: 57 H: 60 M: 35 yrs S30,D28,D19 H off to Alaska 2006 Recon 7/07- 8/08 *2016* X = "ALASKA 2.0" GROUND HOG DAY I File D 10/16 OW DIV 2/26/2018 X marries OW 5/2016
Yes the proof, and I'm a bit ashamed to share was that after the day her car was at the OM's house she came home, changed and put a pad on, claiming she was spotting (sorry for the graphic) after her period (which I know she just had). I ended up taking the pad a day later and used a semen test kit on it. It was positive. I showed the evidence but she of course denied, denied, denied.
Seriously. If what you say is true, you STILL want her back? What is your un-crossable line?
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
I am sorry you are here. The post below was posted by Accuracy a couple months ago and the best post I have seen in over two years on the board. You are early in the process so I think this may help. Also, read Chris73's thread and realize you can't nice your way back.
Being in this situation is like dying of thirst floating on a raft in a poison lake. Everyone will tell you not to drink the water, and why you shouldn't drink the water, and what will happen to you if you drink the water. You can intellectually understand what they're saying, you "get it", you can convince yourself that you're not going to drink the water, but each night when you go to sleep and each morning when you wake up, you're thirsty as hell and the water is right there, so it's extremely easy to convince yourself that a little sip can't hurt. Despite the fact that you know you should not drink the water, you will just keep doing it because you keep convincing yourself its okay to do so because you're just dying of thirst.
So how do we bring that to your scenario? There is really only one prescription and that is to take the focus off of W entirely and focus only on you, your life, and what you want from it. Your learnings about what you need to improve about yourself are an asset you take with you, but everything else about W, what W is doing, what W is thinking, etc. needs to be entirely put aside.
You are not safe for her to approach until she feels you've let her go. That's a simple truth, but incredibly hard to accept.
Reaching out to W, making overtures, contacting W's family, talking to OM's W, snooping on W, this is all "drinking the poison water"
Why are you doing it? Why are you so obsessed with W? You were in a relationship with an LD woman who wasn't meeting your needs, who would irrationally blame you for anything that went wrong, and then cheated on you and lied to you. Why is that a prize worth making the focus of your waking attention?
The reason is that you are grasping to re-establish a feeling of control over your life.
When W cheated/left she ripped your sense of stability away from you. From your perspective you didn't do anything to deserve it, you couldn't stop it from happening, and you couldn't put things back together afterwards.
That would make anyone feel totally out of control, spinning down the drain, and that is a horrible feeling!
You are trying to analyze and understand everything so that you can build it into a rational model so that it will never, ever happen to you again. If I can avoid doing X, then Y will never happen. In addition, you want to unlock this puzzle, to deconstruct it so you can find the solution that will allow you to rebuild it. Finding that key would provide immense comfort.
Your brain has convinced itself that getting W back, or getting W to apologize and declare a desire to have you back is the very best and fastest way to restore your feeling of being in control.
With the benefit of time and distance, you'll realize that's what it's really all about, it's about regaining the ability to feel in control of your life and your future. It really has very little to do with W or who she is as a person, she's a lever to get you what you want, but that's really just an illusion.
You're dying of thirst (feeling out of control), and pursuing W is drinking the water out of the poison lake. You think it will satisfy your thirst each time you do it, but really it's just making you more sick.
We will tell you "don't drink the water!" Intellectually you'll agree, but the water is always there and logically it seems that drinking it is the shortest path to no longer being thirsty.
Instead, you need to paddle your ass to the shore, leave the raft behind, and get a drink somewhere else.
That's not code for having your own affair or finding a new woman to have a relationship with. It has to do with finding an authentic way to rebuild your feeling of being in control, controlling your own destiny and getting your mojo back.
If you take the focus off of W *completely* she will notice. That will give her space to breathe, and to think. That's the only way these things turn around -- the ONLY way.
Don't drink the water. I know it's right there. Don't drink it.
I think any respectable line has already been crossed. Whats next, she's pregnant and she says it's yours?
Love is blind, and you need to let her go before things get any worse. 8 wknds away is a long time for a woman that thinks she's single.
One very important thing tho, you must understand that things happen for a reason, you may not see it now, but this will change you as a man. It will make you stronger and wiser. You just gotta get through the pain.
I had to grow metaphorical testicals cos my XW took them with her on her way out. This new set is a whole lot better than the ones i had before. Never forget that no matter what happens, you can rise like a pheonix from the ashes, the only problem is that you need ashes first.
Just cos things are going right, doesn't mean that they were always wrong.
I am sorry you are here. The post below was posted by Accuracy a couple months ago and the best post I have seen in over two years on the board. You are early in the process so I think this may help. Also, read Chris73's thread and realize you can't nice your way back.
Being in this situation...
Don't drink the water. I know it's right there. Don't drink it.
This is a fantastic post and thank you, thank you, thank you. This is the kind of motivation that I really need right now. I am weak, and even though I know I have to be strong, it is an ongoing challenge.
