Friends: Anchor, Bruce and Chum's BB Version

[TripleJ]

i do believe in this statement. altho, michelle tends to remind us that things CAN CHANGE in the 11th hour. but you see pam - the way i see this whole db process FINALLY is that this isn't about our mate, this is about US individually - so there can be success if we apply these principles to ourselves

KK, this is EXACTLY what people need to realize here IMHO.

The only way we can save our M's and R's is if we save ourselves. I, for one, remember a time when I was contributing to the demise of my M. I did alot of things wrong and I wasn't a very good person, to me, to my W or my kids.

But I sought help, through C, through books and through this BB. And my life as a man has changed for the better.

But lets get back to the point at hand here. I too fell into the thought that many hits and not enough replies means something bad. I learned that it doesn't mean too much. I think it means that there are a number of people out there that follow my thread and my sitch because they see SOME similarity with it and may pick up something that can help them.

I have to be honest and say that at one time, I was very pissed at the BB for not replying on my thread. I would try to seek help but no one would have an answer for me. I wondered why that was.

I still don't have a concrete answer, but I think that I have so many hits is because people like what I have to say. And when they don't reply, they are either agreeing with me or have nothing to add.

The praise is awesome, don't get me wrong. In a way, we all need WoA from one another, cause where else we going to get it right now? But I also need the kick in the patootie once in a while when someone thinks I am messing up.

Isn't what this board should be used for?

I remember a while back, and forgive me for getting specific, the post cycler made to betsey. Alot of people jumped on cycler for posting in such a way that it hurt her. But ya know what? That might have been the BEST thing for her at the time. Actually the best for both of them. I am willing to bet the mortgage that that those two people are better people today because of it.

So you see, throwing 2x4s CAN be a good thing. Praise CAN be a good thing. Its WHERE and WHEN we use them is the key.

And Pam, I need to thank you for starting the topic, I just threw the gasoline on it!!!!!!

Triple J

p.s. I ASK THE MODERATORS TO PLEASE NOT LOCK THIS THREAD UNTIL THIS TOPIC HAS BEEN EXHAUSTED!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

[karen812]

I have another reason for reading posts and not responding:
I would like for ppl to put a summary in their first post I know I haven't always done it either) that describes the sitch, where it has gone, and where it is now. If I go into someone's thread and see that there is 10 previous threads to read to get the sitch, I get discouraged. That takes a LOT of time.

In the beginning of my bb days, I would print out ppls' threads and read them when I got a chance. That was also when H wanted a lot less to do with me...so, now, I don't have the time.

I also look for similarities in our sitch's. I feel like I don't have much to add when your h's have a PA, b/c I do not know what I would do in that sitch. It's easy for ppl to say, "oh, yeah, I'd leave him in a heart beat if he ever cheated on me," only to find themselves in the sitch and staying and wanting to work it out.

There have been a few instances where some people arfed me, & I was thinking, "what are you thinking? I am NOT doing great! I'm stuck in the same ole same ole!!! Don't BS me." Yes, it's nice to hear how wonderful I am and that helps, but not hearing that I am doing a good job when I am not. (Not that I never do a good job).

karen812

[karen812]

KK,
I didn't think that you sounded angry. I saw that you were sticking up for some people in that they may be stuck for a while, but one day they do get it. I don't write much anymore b/c I think "why should i keep writing the same thing over and over? Ppl are gonna get sick of me..."

karen812

[Livnlearn]

I have to be honest and say that at one time, I was very pissed at the BB for not replying on my thread. I would try to seek help but no one would have an answer for me. I wondered why that was.

Yes, I too have had 'dry' periods when no one was posting much to my queries, and I was tempted to think it was because I wasn't interesting enough, or that people didn't like me, or that I wasn't in the right clique, whatever....

But then in DBing we are taught not to take things personally and to not assume! There could be ANY NUMBER of reasons why people don't respond at a given time.

It seems to me that if you post regularly on your own thread, and take the trouble to post to others regularly as well, you soon develop a support/advice circle and get people posting to your thread.

And just sometimes, we feel the need to have the take of someone who is further down the road, 'senior' or otherwise wiser, and we actively solicit their advice.

I would be flattered if someone were to seek me out for advice! And if I was unable to give it, I would politely inform the person that it was not possible at that moment.

Just a bit of give and take.

Livnlearn

[merrick]

question mainly for self discovery...

did i really sound that harsh? please let me know so that i can correct any misconceptions

Not in my opinion. I thought it was a great post.

[Underdog]

OK, I now feel like I need to jump into this pool. I'm not feeling well, so please take that into consideration when reading my words.

Kitti--I did not see your words as harsh. Honest, but not harsh.

Does everyone remember a few months ago when Trish identified things in my posts that bothered her? And because I backed off in my posts, everyone thought I was leveled by what she had to say?

Well, yes, the words hurt. But not because they were slanderous, but because they held truths. Truths that had surfaced too often in other clothing in C for me to ignore. What you guys here don't see is that she continues to write to me via e-mail (and vice versa) because she has decided to utilize another medium to continue working with me in that vein. A vein that initially caused an uproar here.

I appreciate the fact that others ask me for my thoughts and advice, even though some folks seem really stuck and afraid of making the changes that the rest of us see as obvious. I'm not excluding myself from that statement either. But the reality is that I joined the BB because I NEED help, not because I'm a therapist or a comedian.

I think many of you have figured out that Meredith and I have much in common. Undoubtedly, this is why we've got a gravitational pull to each other. We also both use humor to get ourselves through the tough times. In fact, if I can't inject any humor into anything within 24 hours, you can safely assume that I'm HURTING.

That being said, although we have much in common, as do our men, we are not alike in lots of other ways. Therefore, what works for her won't work for me, and so on. But as Pam pointed out, maybe something about her process CAN work for me.

For instance, I took a variation of a theme she used last week and am tailoring it to myself. I had to rework and reword things so that I didn't frighten Mr. W. away. And yes, you may all safely ASSume that I did not give him my venting letter, nor do I intend on doing that. But that doesn't mean that what I wrote does not mean I don't feel that way...

LNL, I think you grossly underestimate yourself. You've been willing to ask questions of me where you felt I needed to think about something. And vice versa.

While EVERYONE made their point about reading and not posting for a variety of reasons, I don't think Pam and Meredith were chiding because of that. And I find it interesting that everyone who has posted here on this issue today is not guilty of that "crime". Each and every one of you has had something to say--on this subject, and many more--to me over the course of my time here on the BB.

We all see posters who only inject empty words and nothingness into their posts. And then there are folks whose threads you can read back over the past 6 months and see very little growth. It's discouraging.

The answer to that is obviously "stay away from them". Well, is that fair to them? I'm sure that many therapists feel they can't help some clients--but I'd be willing to bet that they don't tell them or act out to them their personal thoughts. You could probably say they enjoy getting paid to hear it, while we all work for free.

There ARE people whose threads I cannot read. Maybe they are too painful close to how I felt (not enough time has passed for me to be objective). Maybe they absolutely refuse to do things differently. Maybe I just do not feel as though I can help them. My perogative, as is yours with me. I respect that.

Lurkers? Well, I'm kind to some of them because although I was a registered user for quite some time, I was a lurker until I felt courageous enough to dive in the pool. In the beginning, I didn't want to believe that my life was as awful and screwed up as you folks who were posting were admitting.

To those of you who lurk and read my stuff: you are truly shortchanging yourself by trying to learn without being held accountable. I'm a firm believer in accountability.

My boss holds me to high standards. So do my family. I've been able to ditch 18 lbs by being honest and accountable. And I've been able to really invoke change because I hold myself accountable here, at home and in my C sessions.

Mr. Wonderful has noticed those changes. Does it mean that we're going to have a fairy tale ending? Absolutely NOT. Sometimes love is just not enough. I know this guy loves me with all he has to give. However, his fear of confronting his own demons may be enough to prevent himself from committing to me, our M, and reconciling.

But the fact is, I'm a really different person than I was a year ago. I'm no longer a walking bundle of anger. I'm no longer surviving on a diet of resentment and sarcasm. I'm no longer willing to see myself as a victim. While I don't think I deserved to be abandoned with 2 kids, what else could he have done to wake me up? What else could he have done to get me to stop thinking in terms of being right vs. being wrong? What else could he have done to stop seeing him as the person who screwed up our lives?

The answer is sobering. Pretty much nothing.

When I say to you guys that I am grateful for this journey and all the lessons I have learned, I mean that. I've met some wonderful people here. Those of you who I've bonded with? I consider you true friends. That doesn't mean that making acquaintances is bad. Or the tail chasers either.

I'm going to put this bluntly for myself and everyone else. When I'm bothered by a poster or what they have to say, I have to force myself to stop and ask myself why. Is it because I recognize parts of myself that I haven't changed? Is it because I've changed so much and seeing bits of my old personality hurt? Is it because their message hits too close to home and I want to deny it? Is it because I'm feeling judgmental and uncompassionate?

I can pretty much tell you the last one is hardly ever true. That isn't who I am as a person. Happily, I shed that cloak a very long time ago. But I recognize that there are times when I find that person surfacing. I usually opt to work through those feelings.

But most important, the ones who bother me are typically my hardest learned lessons. I find that nearly all of them are wrapped in very unattractive packaging, and more often than not, I also find the contents offensive. That, BB friends, is my call to change. Not to attempt to change the other person, but myself.

Often I find what is so unappealing is something I really dislike about myself. THEN I can choose to change myself. But I must stop and recognize it for what it is.

Frankly, I've had many moments of epiphany over the past year. Most of them have been heart wrenching and unpleasant. But all of them have helped me mold myself into a nicer overall package. And I'm sure the lessons are far from over.

I will say for the record that I'm going to be posting less for the indefinite future. Not because I have nothing to say (far from that). But because in order to be a friend to others, I must be a friend to myself. I have boundaries, and I realize that I need this right now. I need to stop and just be. I need to internalize things, because I am at a crossroads. A crossroads that is going to signal BIG change for me and my family. Whether it's the road that takes me down the path of reconciliation or the one that splits apart my family as I've known for the past 14 years. I need an inner sanctum. A place of peace and solitary prayer and meditation. A time to ask God for help.

Because I'm going to need it.

I pray that each and every one of you are called to make the changes you know you need to make in order to be happier human beings. What is good for you is good for your relationships--every single one of them.

But you must have the courage and strength to make them.

Peace to all.

Betsey

[Livnlearn]

I thought Kitti's post was Kewl! Arf Arf!!

But seriously folks, I thought she made good points, we are ALL on different timelines and 'get' things at different rates. And if we don't like a thread, we can just ignore it!

And if folk choose to ignore good advice and just look for praise, then that's their choice too! We can't MAKE them do anything. Just like we can't control our spouses.

Livnlearn

[sage]

KK -- You didn't seem angry to me...but that could have been because I read your post and thought "yah, what SHE said" A perfect example of "reading but not posting and the reasons why!".

I guess I'd add one thing...I spent most of my marriage pretty sure that I had the "right" way to "process" stuff and that if only I could somehow convince h to do it "my way" then everything would be cool. I had lots of "backup" for that from my friends and even counselors.

Well, that belief system nearly cost me my m. and it's been a painful lesson to learn that we process stuff differently and that's ok. Extending that to the BB I'd say that I don't agree that we're all here for the same reasons nor do I think that we all need to process this stuff in the same way. Michele was the first "person" to let me know that it was AOK if my m. and what was "working" to fix it didn't fit the "mold" of what the experts thought should be happening. it's trial and error and applying the DB principles to your own sitch that matters most, IMHO. I appreciate that sometimes I've been coddled on my thread, that I've received well aimed 2x4s, and that I've received praise. I seem to get a lot more views than posts but I hope that's because people find my thread interesting. At the end of the day, though, I'm here because I need and want to be.

Sage

[Lyrael]

Okay -
I am going to say "Yeah, what SHE said" to Bets' post, mostly because I am realizing that (according to one of my new life rules) I need to take care of myself first.

Then I am going to add another one to Sage - my M doesn't fit anybody's idea of the "typical" M. I have an appt, and will be staynig with my H only part time. We don't really know at this point what will happen to our M.

But I don't care anymore what people think of how unusual my situation is. It is working for us, and allowing two people who love each other very much to remain ineach other's lives in a way that doesn't hurt, but enhances both of those lives.

My H couldn't have gotten through to me in any other way than by leaving either. And I slid back into destructive patterns, and he left again. I needed that, honestly. I needed a MASSIVE whack to the head so that I understood that I could either be "right" and hold on to my vison of a "real marriage" and a "normal family," or I could be with the man that I loved, and grow into a person who was tolerant and accepting rather than critical and angry all the time.

I am learning, and this BB has facilitated that. Almost everyone who has posted on this thread has affected that journey. You guys have helped me change my life, and not by arfing at me all the time, either.
I think this post made no sense, but oh, well.
Myrrh

[dazedboy]

It is about bleeping time for a thread like this. Finally a refreshingly honest look at the mental ebbs and flows of DBing.

A couple of weeks ago I took a BB break. TripleJ recognized that for some of us, this is very hard work and going into a cave for isolation from this board coupled wih personal pressures is the best thing to do. My respect for the board and confidence in friends like triplej greatly improved.

I think though, that in order for me to continue I must ask a favor. Meredith will you please post your home phone number, fax, pager and cell phone here so I can call if you ever stop posting again!!! I'm not sure I can handle kewlkitty's, lnl's or UD's posts!! bwahahahah!!!

And for the record, in the middle of all the garbage we are being faced with, we must not take ourselves too seriously. Life is to short to play with only your own toys! Get out and live your own life - is there a better DB principle than this?