Friends: Anchor, Bruce and Chum's BB Version

[CMNM]

Hi all!
Roommate #3, checking in!
May I first say I am honored to be included here?
I'd like to thank the academy, I'd like to thank Mer and Bets, and most of all, I'd like to thank my mother for helping me to become a crazymaker because it is what brought me here...

Sorry Mer! You know I love the negative humor too. Please don't give it up completely, I love having that outlet with you.

Anyway...

wow. I come home to not only a new thread, but 3 pages of really good stuff. I'm so thrilled about all of the visitors here! I haven't been as visible as Mer and Bets, so many of you probably don't know of me. I tend to ramble and have disjointed thoughts, but they are able to make sense of it and present it all back coherently.

Enough said! I guess it is only right if I try my hand at my own list.

Things about H that I promise to CONSIDER:

1. H’s need to constantly be busy
2. H’s need to give his time and attention to multiple sports teams (coaching and playing)
3. H’s very different idea of romance (different than mine)
4. H’s difficulty in revealing his feelings
5. H’s need to cling to the past

Things about me that I promise to CONSIDER:

1. Getting busy when I start to feel restless
2. The way I feel is not necessarily the way my H feels
3. Getting my point across is only bad if I do it in a bitchy way
4. The main point about asking for what I want and getting it is that I actually get what I want, NOT "but I shouldn't have to ask"

Things that I have CONSIDERED and cannot allow in my marriage (from me OR my H):
1. Emotional and/or physical affairs
2. Anything less than total agreement from both parties regarding the kids.
3. The notion that a marriage based on "true love" doesn't require work.
4. A lack of a work ethic and real motivation to be happy in the marriage.

I'm sure you all will tell me how I did.

In my quick read of the thread, I noticed that I was asked to give my thoughts on the whole not calling issue. I'm not too sure that my thoughts on it apply to you Bets, but, here is basically what I discussed with Meredith:

A couple of weeks ago I went away to a conference for work. While there, I noticed that I did not give my H a single thought. Well, I guess technically that is not true, since I was thinking about not thinking of him...but that's beside the point! There was a point when I did realize that I had not called my H at all, when normally I would have not only called on the way there, but also when I checked into the hotel, when I realized that the comedian I was going to see was someone we had seen and liked on t.v., etc...

All I can say is that I suddenly felt at peace with it. Back in Jan., when I still had my thread, or maybe was "squatting" on Mer's, I had a real problem with the fact that my H was away and hadn't made a single effort to call. I immediately jumped to the conclusion that he just didn't care about me, and that his lack of a call proved that I was not the person that he wanted to share news with.

Until that day a couple of weeks back, I still believed this. At that point, my whole attitude changed. I realized that being busy and not calling was not a crime, or more importantly, not because of a lack of caring.

I'm not losing sight of the issue...follow me here...

I am still working at bringing the fun back into my marriage, and going back to being the girl around my H that I project to everyone else. (The big issue that I was discussing when I singlehandedly killed the joy on Betsey's old thread!)

I am not there yet.

Calling my H at that point would have been too much of a cold shower to the fun I was having with work buddies. He hasn't seen that joyful, fun-loving me too often. I think I instinctively felt that calling him would require too much of a personality shift. So, I continued to have fun, and I didn't call.

O.K., so maybe the reason is just now occuring to me, but the acceptance came right then. I knew in my heart that I loved my H. I knew that he was the man I wanted to be with, and not calling in no way took away from those feelings. If this is true for me, why not him? It could be so!

Wow. Amazing how all of these things all tie together. My intent was to write about how it can be possible to care, yet not pick up the phone. I had an AHA! moment though. More evidence that I need to work on losing the serious demeanor that I greet my H with daily.

Time to infuse this relationship with some fun! It is what I want, and if I have to take the first few steps to get there, I will. We had it once, so I know it is possible again.

Hey, thanks guys! I may not have helped Betsey at all, but I just helped myself considerably!

Guess I still owe ya one, Bets!
But not you Mer, as you really need to think about this....

[CMNM]

Triple J,
Betsey and Meredith have both spoken quite highly of you. I hear you're a very positive guy, so I look forward to getting to know you better.

Betsey, I forgot to say-
S15 LOVES the Avs (a crime when living here). So, in honor of him..., Yes, you can hear a big GO AVS!
I'm so so so sorry, Meredith!

[Underdog]

Pam,

I am clapping like a seal (arf arf) at your considerations. Great job!

And BTW, thanks for your input to the calling while away thing. As always, you've given me another point of view to CONSIDER. Isn't that what it's all about?

I'll even say this: that issue is not a deal breaker. I would like for him to call me (presuming we're working on the M). But it is not a deal breaker. If my needs are being met in other ways, I'll know he's thinking about me.

I need to add a couple more to my list of considerations.

Things I will consider about Mr. W:

* His reluctance to check in with me if it makes him feel controlled
* Any alternative ways to show love to me and the girls when he is not with us

Things about myself to consider:

*How I interpret not getting what I want the way I want it
*Wanting a man who does not love sports as much as I do (this is sort of a joke, but not really)

Things that I considered and won't accept:

*More than a few hairs on a man's back--if he needs a waxing, I'm outta here! Sorry, I had to inject SOME humor into this serious discussion
*Apathy in any way, shape or form

Triple J, after I compose the letter, I'll put it out here for review. I hope that you will all be pleasantly surprised.

I will comment once on the subject of sarcasm, because it's an issue that has surfaced with me over the course of my 42 years on this planet. It has single handedly been the #1 item on the "I hate what Betsey does" list since I started dating.

Sarcasm is a defense mechanism. And even if it's self deprecating and not directed toward anyone else, it shows a lack of respect for yourself and the person you are communicating with. I finally got that message in MC last summer. And I will tell you both that I heard it over and over before (in more subtle ways), and chose to go on being myself.

I believe that it was a dealbreaker with the men who proceeded Mr. Wonderful, and it was a HUGE bone of contention with him. My past R's cannot be the only ones where sarcasm was unhealthy and unwanted.

In fact, a couple weeks ago I read somewhere that the use of sarcasm in communications between couples was the one criteria Cs use in discerning if the R can be saved. It shows a complete lack of respect for others.

I think if this is a tool we've all relied on heavily in the past, it must be on the list of things to CONSIDER getting rid of. It's high on my list, and I'm often tempted to inject it. But I remember how angry it makes Mr. W. and how it affected my previous Rs.

What do you guys think?

[CabanaBoy]

I think sarcasm is fun! You just have to know when to use it and when not to. Did you ever think that maybe the men in your past Rs are a bit too sensitive? Just a thought.

I'm replying here rather than on my thread Betsy. You are not an old fart! Shoot, I thought you were in your early 30's at first. I hope you don't think that way cause you are selling yourself short if you do. I know that going through all this nonsense makes us FEEL years older but you do look VERY good and I'm not the only one that has said that.

You are doing just fine, give your Mr. some time to see what he is missing. That is my honest guy opinion. Besides, those LBS ALWAYS come back the problem is when? LOL

Berto

[KutieKat]

so am i to understand anyone can participate in this homework assignment on this thread?

[Meredith]

Yeah, BUT…but…but…but…Betsey…I like sarcasm! I like it a lot! Okay, how about this plan. I will not be sarcastic to my H in an angry situation because I can see how that would definitely be classified as disrespect (yet, I’m telling you, it makes these wall-talking interactions a little more spicey). Instead of tossing out my creatively construed sarcastic comments toward my H, I’ll send it to you and Pam instead. Then, my talent wasn’t wasted and my H doesn’t have to hear it. Plus we can have a really good roflol over it. Deal?

Even though this topic seems to be as dead as the battery in my cell phone right now (and yes, that is a problem) I’ll add my two cents on the PA/EA issue that Seattle brought to light. My thoughts are directly in line with Betsey’s. Yes, these affairs happened…in the past. They happened when we weren’t considering our partners one iota. They happened when our partners weren’t considering us one iota. They happened and they are done.

HOWEVER…if we go through this work and we truly change and we invest our time, our love and our souls into trusting these people again and they still decide to stray – hand me a pen, please, so that I can sign my name on the dotted line of the divorce decree. That is what all of my deal breakers formulate around. Hell, every one of those items on my deal breakers list happened. To be totally honest, one of them still is (the lateness). And if they continue to happen when I have given consideration to every angle and every alternative, well, they are something I cannot and will not live with.

Something occurred to me as I was reading through everyone’s lists. Almost everyone had mentioned a communication breakdown. Yet, almost everyone had something listed to consider about H’s behavior. For H’s who cannot communicate, they seemed to communicate their need for solitude pretty well. Surely, the communication needs work…but you know, I don’t think that they are not communicating. I think they are just not communicating the things that we want them to.

Another thought I had is that our lists are similar…and I wonder if that is because we are all woman discussing our husbands. Know what that means? All you men out there…Seattle, Bill, Triple J…you know who you are. Let’s see some lists! We’ll compare them to see if maybe there is something that us women are not communicating very clearly – maybe in a way that our husbands have not considered??

Pam, you needn’t worry about my negative humor, dahling. It is who I am and I will be negatively funny from now until forever!

[love_endures4ever]

UD,

My H hates sarcasm, I'm realizing it and I don't like being that way so much anymore either. I USED to use it a lot, but have backed off, and it does need "negative energy" to access I find.

Cathy

[CMNM]

Oh NO! Am I sitting here with egg all over my face or what?

I seriously just realized that sarcasm is a real problem over here too.

How could I have missed it up til now is a mystery, because there have even been times when I say something complimentary to my youngest S, and he'll look at me strangely and say, "Is that sarcastic or real?"

Add to that it is now echoing in my head that my H often said that sarcasm is the only way my family communicates.

I honestly didn't see it as a problem.

Back to the list for me too, I guess...

And yes, this homework assignment is open to anyone and everyone. So the rest of you, get to it!

[Meredith]

Egg on your face, huh? Hard boiled slightly blue from dye egg? Or Cadbury egg shared by your H? Sorry, couldn't resist!

Okay, Pam...join me. We'll keep the sarcasm between the people who can get some roflols out of it but we won't pass it on to our H's. Even when they really piss us off and we're bored. Deal?

Why would only certain people be invited to do the homework assignment?

[Underdog]

Mer,

I liked sarcasm too! And Berto, as much as I'd like to justify my continual use of it in my relationships with others, it IS a problem. It masks a deep rooted insecurity and fear of having others find out what is really in my heart and soul.

My first inkling of its power was when D10 was 5--and she would repeat my one-liners. Most adults thought she was a hoot, but one person was brave enough to discuss it with me. I don't remember the exact convo, but the gist of it was that she was imitating me. The person pointed out to me that she was afraid of revealing herself to others and masked off her heart by using heavy doses of it.

The issue became what Pam called "egg on her face": that is, the REAL you is completely unknown to people because you use it in so many areas of your life that the lines become fuzzy and unclear.

The only place sarcasm should be used is when telling jokes. Do you really think D4 needs more than she already demonstrates? Most people find her wit amusing until you realize that she will use it to mask the incredible pain she feels underneath. Do you want your S to learn how to use sarcasm instead of accurate words to describe how he's feeling?

It's contagious and learned.

I got so used to using sarcasm being an everyday occurrence for me that I could head off most serious convos with just about anyone by initiating the comments so that I could be the one to deliver the punchline.

For example, when I was a teenager, my best partner in crime was my cousin--who is my age and is as talented in sarcasm as I am. Now that he's 42, I can look at him and see myself in the mirror and understand that it is a coping mechanism. And guess what? We're both adult children of alcoholics/heavy drinkers.

I had injured my face somehow and he was concerned. He said to me, "Is your face killing you?" My answer: "Yeah, and I know it's killing you by looking at it too." He had done that routine on me for so long that I could no longer allow him to care for me because I became so attuned at a quick comeback.

Do you see how intimidating this can be? And how pervasive it is? You can't just use it a little--because it's the type of tool that doesn't know boundaries and acceptable times. If Mr. Wonderful is guilty of not revealing what is in his heart, I wonder if my sarcasm had any part in that? To be constantly cut to the quick by my wit must not have been encouraging in the honesty department, if you get my drift.

Yes, I think you're extremely funny. But you know what? I would think you were funny without sarcasm. I'm sure Pam would agree. You are funny on its own merit, Meredith. You don't need a mask for me to see your value and insight to life.

I've found that I can still THINK sarcastically but not feel the need to express myself. Ironically, my R with my mother has improved 100% by eliminating that item from my diet.

You don't have to like my message or accept it, but won't you CONSIDER it?

Okay, I'm going to write a letter to Mr. Wonderful and come back and post it here--that is, if you and Pam are okay with it. I spent most of the night tossing and turning and have an idea of what I want to say.

Tossing the back to you guys!