Friends: Anchor, Bruce and Chum's BB Version

[Underdog]

Hey HOn!

My H DOES remind me of your H in that he seems content to stay put... he actually emailed me wondering if "something had happened" that made the kids not want to answer his calls. Shall I answer, "what, other than you dumping us and moving out? Other than putting some OW above them? Other than looking for YOUR happiness? Other than that, you mean?" But, I won't...

Holy crap! I spit water all over my computer screen! I haven't received an e-mail with those words, but after I returned home from visiting Meredith and Pam in February, he asked me: "Why does D10 always seem to be so mad when I come get her on Fridays?"

My desired response would have been awfully similar to yours. I will keep on swimming, but pretty soon, we're all going to be ready to find another reef and seek out a new level of happiness and gratitude.

Yes, D10 is VERY ready to punch the off button. She wants me to find a man (who is kind AND attractive) who can love me as much as I want to love him. I believe those were awfully close to her exact words.

Count me in: I'm more than ready. I have to remind D10 to keep her hands in her lap on this ride and not to do or say anything until I tell her (after all, I'm still the mom and the boss of her).

As long as we're on this subject (to all who care), I finally mustered the guts to call some friends of ours last night. I met them when we lived in CA and they were friends of Mr. W--they have lived in CO for quite some time, and we used to spend a lot of time with them.

They have been leaving me voicemails, asking me how I am, and asking me to come down and visit soon. Their son is 15 and calls me Aunt Betsey... anyway, I spoke with both of them last night, ending with the H (who I will call Stanley).

Stanley told me in no uncertain terms: Bets, it's time to do something. You've been playing by his rules for over a year and a half and he's not going anywhere. In fact, he's not even committed to thinking about you and your future, let alone committed to you and the girls. W and I will always love both of you and be friends with both of you, but I gladly tell you that we support YOU and your commitment to your M. If we are forced to make a choice, we will choose you.

The peanut gallery is now coming out to me in full force. I'm not surprised at their positions either.

Enough said. Back to the grind and more thinking. UGH!

[rottzilla]

Awesome, Betsey, that outsiders are recognizing the effort you have made. You must really be steadfast, firm, and sincere for them to take that stand. Congratulations!

[Lyrael]

Alrighty then...time for my first homework assignment here at the "Big Three" thread.

I am still trying to work my brain around this idea of just "considering"- feeling without doing anything is one of my toughest problems that I am tackling right now. I see myself banging my head on the same brick wall time and again, and I don't like it. (Brick wall being my doing the same thing over and over and expecting it to have a magically different outcome this time.)

So here are my lists for consideration:

Things about H I promise to CONSIDER: (yes, I am shamelessly mooching Mer's formatting here)
1) H's need to be alone much of the time.
2) H's incredible fear of emotions in general/mine in
particular
3) H's seeming indecisiveness about our marriage.
4) H's past crappy BIG things - infidelity, etc...I want to consider the best way to put those things to rest in my heart and mind.
5) H's unwillingness to express whether he truly wants me in his life as anything more than a coparent. (kinda like three)
6) H's being late ALL THE TIME
7) H's inability to remember things he has agreed to do
8) H not being able to focus on any conversation we have (or anything else) for more than a few minutes.
9) H's way of expressing his emotions - which is not expressing them most of the time

Things about me I promise to CONSIDER:
1) My anger and in what situations I choose to express it
2) My need for a clearcut definition and answer as to what our M is or should be
3) My own confusion about whether I want to stay in this M or not.
4) My need to control/constantly influence the outcome of every interaction between H and I.
5) Just letting everything be for a mentally specified period of time...but asking for what I want - can we spend time together such-and-so, or can you take S to this and that...
6) Not expressing being angry about his answer to him
7) Letting go of H and seeing who he is without me controlling/nagging him all the time
8) Working on truly enjoying spending time alone

Things I have considered and CANNOT allow in my M (from either of us):
1) Emotional or physical affairs
2) Dishonesty

Now I need to go consider what considering really means.
Hmm.
Myrrh

[Love2Win]

Okay so I'm gonna take a shot at Mer's homework assignment.
Things that I will consider about H:
1. Spending time w/kids is some sort of affection.
2. His workaholism is more than a hiding place but a means to contribute to his family.
3. His desire to be private is more than a harbour of secrets but a shelter for my pain.
4. His desire to be "friends" is a good start on connection.
5. Association w/opposite sex is non-threatening (too harsh??)

Things about Me to consider:
1. Need to be more "flexible" w/my routine.
2. Need to be more receptive to desires of my H
3. Need to be more of a team player w/spending QT w/H (do things I don't want to do)
4. Adopt "just do it" policy in future R
5. Continue to listen w/heart and ears to all who I care about.
6. No longer allow anyone to come between my R w/best friend (H)

Things I will not allow in my M:
1. No EA/PA allowed.
2. Lack of communication-say what you want, I can't read minds.
3. Lack of QT w/kids.
4. Lack of QT w/H -physically and emotionally.
5. No longer "ass"ume silence is golden (goes w/#2)

Am I on the right track here???

[Meredith]

Now I need to go consider what considering really means.

Let me try to clarify…

What ‘considering’ really means….

This is based off of the movie, Mona Lisa Smile.

You do not have to love it.

You do not have to agree with it.

You simply have to consider it.

These are things that are up for review. Things that we have chucked aside as crap because of the way they initially made us feel. We may have felt abnormal, disrespected, neglected, shamed, etc and therefore decided that this was a bad thing without considering its potential, its message or its impact. Now, we are considering these things.

For instance…let’s pick up your first one. H's need to be alone much of the time.

Yep, that is crappy. Why? Because it makes you feel like you’re unwanted, disrespected, yadda yadda. But…what haven’t you considered about this statement? From his perspective? From your own? Have you given this a chance?

Have you noticed something? All of our lists contain similar things to consider, for the most part. For example, we all hate and resent our H’s needs to be alone. Why? Probably because of what we know it means when WE want to be alone…probably because we are excluded from their world when they retreat…probably because we haven’t fully considered what it means when they concentrate on their need to be alone rather than our need for quality time and attention. Now, we consider. Then, we decide…deal breaker or something for us to work on. If it doesn’t make the deal breaker list, we can’t add it to the “I’m divorcing you because ____” phrase. Make sense???

[Meredith]

Good start Karen!!

One thing...in your deal breakers list, you mentioned communication. Have you already considered that your H may communicate differently? Maybe even in a way that you cannot fully understand? Just throwing out food for thought...

[Underdog]

I need to add one more item to the list of considering Mr. Wonderful:

* Consider why he feels no need to call us when he's out of town on business or pleasure

Great insight from everyone so far!

[Meredith]

Pam can help you to consider that one, Bets! She did a fabulous job helping me with it.

[Underdog]

Sounds good. Pam, when you're back, I want some input from you. Because this issue has surfaced in MC before, and frankly, it pisses me off.

In fact, MC asked Mr. W. why he didn't do this? Mr. W. replied, "I don't know. I think it's because I know she really wants it, and I don't want to give it to her."

WTF?

MC said, "Well, Mr. W., if this made life awfully smooth and made the difference between having her mad when you get home vs. happy, I think it's a really small consolation to check in with her and say hello."

Mr. W. commented, "I suppose. But that doesn't mean I'll do it."

What a guy I married, eh?

[Lyrael]

If it doesn’t make the deal breaker list, we can’t add it to the “I’m divorcing you because ____” phrase.

I can't even imagine having the strength at this point to utter that phrase, either verbally, or by filing the damn papers. Sorry - did I mention "anger"on my things ot consider about me list...or my NEED to contact H even when I don't particularly want to? That last bears serious considering.

Hmmm.
Myrrh