Sandi2 or Starsky309..advice on Wayward Husband

[Cadet]

Obviously. I don't know how to reclaim my place as Plan A, and keep it that way.

Some of it is out of your control,
however be mysterious.

Men like what they can't have.

You want him to pursue you,
not you pursue him.

[Gal522]

Obviously. I don't know how to reclaim my place as Plan A, and keep it that way.

Some of it is out of your control,
however be mysterious.

Men like what they can't have.

You want him to pursue you,
not you pursue him.

You're right. When things went sideways, I was the initiator/pursuer. I would feel valued if he pursued me for a change. Again, this goes back to ppl vying for his time.

[sandi2]

Okay, thanks for getting back with your story. I have several questions, b/c I think I got a little confused reading your post. What are the ages of you and H? Do you have just the one child?

This is just a shot in the dark, but did your H start out in gospel music? The reason I ask is b/c you mentioned how your faith was the bond between you. Some musicians who begin in gospel, will cross over to secular entertainment.......and then fall away from their faith to embrace a wordly lifestyle.

Trying to keep the road home smooth, we didn't go to counseling nor did we come to terms about how things would be different.

How do you picture keeping the road home paved smoothly?

We would have disagreements about it, he acknowledged his actions were wrong, but he also defended them saying that I need to understand that there's nothing wrong with "going out" and that all of his friends are in the nightlife industry and that's the only way he can see them, he doesn't have a normal schedule and that I would be happier with someone like that, he needs to be with someone that understands him.

He is not defending his lifestyle..........he is telling you that he chooses it over what you want. It sounds as if he has an attitude of "like it or lump it" and does whatever he wants. I can see the benefits he gets from staying in the M, but I am not seeing what you get out of it.

What I have asked for is communication

I see a couple of reasons it has become a chore for him. 1). He doesn't want you knowing what all he's doing. 2). He sees you prying into his "personal" business (that he keeps separated from his M and family. In addition, the two you are basically living separate lives. Other than your son, what do you have in common?

Throughout the reconciliation, I would express my concerns and then "dropped the rope" to save our relationship, but I became a doormat.

How do you interpret "drop the rope"?

So, here are my goals. These are signs that H is interested in working on M.

The goals are all about him. How do you set goals for someone else?

But, now I'm confused. We spoke on the phone today, H kept going on and on about how I don't understand him--his work, his lifestyle, his friends. I said that I could see why he would feel that way, and that I try my best to understand his sitch. I've been doing a good job with DBing apparently because he feels like I'm shutting him out.

I realize I am just hearing your side of the story, but it sure sounds like he's throwing you a bunch of excuses.

He again blames me for his bad behavior because I asked him to leave. In many ways I feel like he is doing everything to destroy our M without physically filing, because he is too chicken to do anything. I can also see that he knows what needs to be done to make things right, but he's just too stubborn to do it.

Do you know that men who abuse women say the same thing? He is responsible for his own behavior, and nobody can cause him to behave badly. Those are clearly his choices. It concerns me just a little, some of the things you have said in your posts. Sometimes a spouse will cover the other one. He is not "chicken" or "too stubborn" to behave like a mature man who has a wife and kids. I think you need to watch his actions and not his words.

[Gal522]

Okay, thanks for getting back with your story. I have several questions, b/c I think I got a little confused reading your post. What are the ages of you and H? Do you have just the one child?

This is just a shot in the dark, but did your H start out in gospel music? The reason I ask is b/c you mentioned how your faith was the bond between you. Some musicians who begin in gospel, will cross over to secular entertainment.......and then fall away from their faith to embrace a wordly lifestyle..

I’m 36 and H is 34. We have 2 kids, I had D in 2012, immediately after the TV talent show, right before the first separation. I nearly had her in the hospital alone because H was out partying and too hungover to drive. Fortunately, my labor was long enough that he sobered up and made it to see her delivery but immediately left to go to a show.

Not gospel. We were non-beleivers when we met and dedicated our lives a year into our marriage. He started in church and then crossed over to secular entertainment.

Trying to keep the road home smooth, we didn't go to counseling nor did we come to terms about how things would be different.

How do you picture keeping the road home paved smoothly?

From what I interpreted here, that meant making the transition home easy. And it was, provided that we avoided counseling, discussing the behaviors that led to the breakdown of the M, discussing boundaries and mutual needs. I felt like reconciling was presented as: You already know how I am, my work, my habits, etc. You know what you’re getting into and being with me (the new H) means accepting it. And I did, for my children, for my faith, and my values, I did.

We would have disagreements about it, he acknowledged his actions were wrong, but he also defended them saying that I need to understand that there's nothing wrong with "going out" and that all of his friends are in the nightlife industry and that's the only way he can see them, he doesn't have a normal schedule and that I would be happier with someone like that, he needs to be with someone that understands him.

He is not defending his lifestyle..........he is telling you that he chooses it over what you want. It sounds as if he has an attitude of "like it or lump it" and does whatever he wants. I can see the benefits he gets from staying in the M, but I am not seeing what you get out of it.

And I wonder this often too—what’s in it for me. Maybe I’m holding onto someone who is long gone.

What I have asked for is communication

I see a couple of reasons it has become a chore for him. 1). He doesn't want you knowing what all he's doing. 2). He sees you prying into his "personal" business (that he keeps separated from his M and family. In addition, the two you are basically living separate lives. Other than your son, what do you have in common?

At present, just our children and work. We used to be very family oriented, plugged into church, but he has completely changed his lifestyle.

Throughout the reconciliation, I would express my concerns and then "dropped the rope" to save our relationship, but I became a doormat.

How do you interpret "drop the rope”?

If we would have a disagreement, I would eventually stop arguing and give in. For example, I didn’t think it was a great idea to join a Country Club because of our financial sitch. He insisted he needed it to network and build business relationships. I gave in. As I type these words, I see how I enabled him and created a monster. I wouldn't give in to my kids if they were throwing a fit, but for some reason I couldn’t stand up to my H. I feared that he would react by cheating again or leave. Anytime he didn’t get his way or I would pull back, it became, "you don’t understand me or my life” or “you’re not accepting me”.

So, here are my goals. These are signs that H is interested in working on M.

The goals are all about him. How do you set goals for someone else?

You’re right. These are not goals. More or less observations of H’s actions. They are 180s for him and I didn’t want to dismiss his effort. I need to work on my goals.

But, now I'm confused. We spoke on the phone today, H kept going on and on about how I don't understand him--his work, his lifestyle, his friends. I said that I could see why he would feel that way, and that I try my best to understand his sitch. I've been doing a good job with DBing apparently because he feels like I'm shutting him out.

I realize I am just hearing your side of the story, but it sure sounds like he's throwing you a bunch of excuses.

[quote]He again blames me for his bad behavior because I asked him to leave. In many ways I feel like he is doing everything to destroy our M without physically filing, because he is too chicken to do anything. I can also see that he knows what needs to be done to make things right, but he's just too stubborn to do it.

Do you know that men who abuse women say the same thing? He is responsible for his own behavior, and nobody can cause him to behave badly. Those are clearly his choices. It concerns me just a little, some of the things you have said in your posts. Sometimes a spouse will cover the other one. He is not "chicken" or "too stubborn" to behave like a mature man who has a wife and kids. I think you need to watch his actions and not his words.

You’re right. I need to observe his actions which is hard to do. We rarely interact because he travels so much. He asks about the kids about once a week.

[Gal522]

I think it's time that I stop insisting that I understand his lifestyle because he is so convinced that I don't, because truthfully I don't fully understand it. I understand the demands of his work, I understand that his friends work in nightlife, but I don't understand why he would rather be there night after night instead of spending time with his family. I don't understand why fans "women" can take pictures with my husband groping him or sitting on this lap. He IS gone all the time, so our time together is even more precious. I can't convince him to see the value in what the kids and I have because he has never experienced it himself. When I pull back, it translates as rejection to him. I can't control how he sees things.

[Cadet]

Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka
that I totally agree with.

Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.

It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.

We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.

Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.

[sandi2]

I think it's time that I stop insisting that I understand his lifestyle because he is so convinced that I don't, because truthfully I don't fully understand it.

I suggest your H has repetively used the same words, which directs your attention away from him and focuses the problem as your inability to understand his needs, his friends, his work, his......his......his. . So then, you turn it inward and look at yourself as insufficient, while he chooses a life of lasciviousness. Let's call it what it is.

This has nothing to do about your ability to understand "the demands" of his job. It has everything to do about the moral/spiritual measuring guide you believe in and have chosen to guide your life. It is about gown men and women being accountable and responsible for their actions. Currently, your H doesn't care if you understand him. The truth is that he chooses to not be accountable & responsible, and he appears to get away with it by saying his W just doesn't understand him. This is a man who uses his job as his gateway to revel in lustful rewards, instead of a devoted H who has a family at home.

His choices show his preferences. He had rather engage in this type of lifestyle, than conform to a clean, wholesome, church-going life. Although you can see how destructive this has been for all of you.........he is getting something he wants. He wants it more than anything. The "it" has a terrible hold on him.

As long as this all works for him.....he will not change. My advice is to let him go, while he sees you moving forward. He has not had to change or improve anything, b/c you did not require it of him. You worked on improving yourself, which is great, but he didn't have to do anything but show up once in a while. He had a reconciliation that waywards dream about.......which means nothing was required from him to get back his M. No changes, no counseling, no talks, no accountability.....nothing! So now, he's not bothering to even show up. That should not be acceptable!

It has ceased just being a job for him. It has become a lifestyle. Understanding his lifestyle, does not require your approval or acceptance of his bad behavior, IMHO. Just as his actions show his preferences in life, so do your actions show him tolerance for more of the same.

Let me ask some questions. How much have you had to compromise, to stay with him? What has he gave up, or even compromised, in order to keep you?

How is your self-esteem?

[Gal522]

Last night I attended a Christian Conference, my soul needed it. While there, so many thoughts and questions invaded my mind.

"Besides our kids, what DO we have in common now?" I love my new job and where I am in life, I love my friends, I love my relationship with my kids, there isn't much to be sad about, I just wish I had someone to share it with. Had it not been for the first separation, I would not have found myself again and re-discovered what makes Gal522 tick. GAL was necessary because at one time H was my life, building his career and when he was gone I felt like I had nothing--I didn't even know who I was. Strangely, GAL caused us to live even more separate lives. Because I was committed to school and eventually working, I wasn't free to drop everything to travel and be with him. Early mornings with the kids, meant no partying the night before, besides I was the only one responsible for them. When we first reconciled, we spent a lot of time with our friends--I had to juggle being the playmate he wanted with the mother I needed to be. Those friends were just couples then, H and I, the only married ones w/ kids. As time went on, those friends married and progressed to the next stage of life with children. H moved on to a new group of single friends. In order to spend any quality time with H, it was on his terms and on his timeline, which meant, come party with me and my boys, lets go to this mixer even though it conflicts with the kids activities. I didn't decline every invitation, but his pace of life became exhausting.

Can a MR exist with two ppl living completely separate lives?

[sandi2]

Is that what you really want,.......... or are you honestly wanting the guy he was when you M him?

[Gal522]

Yes, you’re right. I do turn it inward and look at myself as insufficient when he says I don’t understand. I was good enough when I was in the trenches building his career, believing in him, being his only supporter financially, physically and emotionally. When I met H, I was out of his league—young, beautiful, free, and very responsible. I fell hard for H, a risk-taking and shy artist, I guess you could say that opposites DO attract. He just started his career, he lost his day job because he couldn’t find a balance, his car was getting repo-ed, and he was getting evicted. And here GAL522 came along, rescuing him. That was the dance for many years, and it worked.

It’s hard to feel sufficient when I feel like I’m constantly compared to the women that throw themselves at him. I can’t outshine desperate women. I’m attractive, I take care of myself but I’m not the groupies that he attracts and the women that are looking for men in night clubs. And right now, he likes that. As a local celebrity, his presence is needed everywhere and he feels obligated to being there because that’s his fanbase, it’s work, but he also gets a lot of validation from it. Also, I do feel insecure when I know that his pool of available women is different, he can pursue the TV personality, the model and actually have a chance.

When we had our son, everything changed. We had a hard time getting pregnant, so after 5 years of trying, it was as if my dream came true when we suddenly became pregnant. H’s career was taking off and it felt like both of us were living the dream except my dream included H engaging in being a father, by my side. This was the time things shifted, my attention was on our son whom we nearly lost while I was pregnant and H had to navigate his career without me being his right-hand man.

He does feel like a life with me is “conforming” or “settling”. He said that he can’t be the father and H he needs to be because of the demands of his work—he feels so unique. He says his work doesn’t allow him to be present. He has projected on me, that I should be with someone “normal” and he can’t be “normal”. This is when I second-guess what I’m asking for, who I am, and what he wants of me.

I’ve done nothing but compromise for this M, most of it driven by fear, my faith and my desire to break the cycle of divorce. I feel like H was aware of this and tested how far he could go. Long story short but H set me up to be his co-signer to lease his new exotic car. Up until that moment, I gave in to all of his reckless financial decisions. With this sitch, I told H that if he insisted I go through with it, I was done. We went to the dealer, I signed because I wasn’t going to embarrass him in front of his peers, and I told him I was done. I asked him why he made me do it knowing the consequences would be a S or D…he said that he felt we could talk it out. This is just an example of the lack of partnership and respect in our M.

If you were to ask H what he has given up, he would say that he has declined on some invitations out or shows to fly home to be with the family. H deleted pics of OW on his phone. He hasn’t given up his privacy—I used to have access to everything which I didn’t abuse but over time, he became more and more protective of HIS life.