A stronger me for whatever the future holds

[Woke_Up]

Gordie

That's some great thoughts there. I must admit, when I did the assessment of me from W's point of view, I out in controlling - based on that she has said she won't be controlled, therefore must feel that I am trying to control.

From my viewpoint, I find her controlling, so therefore I now know I have the difficult task of examining myself closely, to understand how my actions and words come across as controlling. I know there are some obvious ones - 'You can't do that, You can't think that, you must, you need to' - Fixing the language used. Again, focus on one's self, fix one's self. I have a tendency to focus on the spouses issues and how they make me feel.

But yes, many of the things you list resonate. SAHM, feeling isolated, lonely, trapped, never had a career, child at early age, all quite typical of many, many situations.

[Woke_Up]

*put in, not out in

[Chris73]

PacLove. Your breakdown of the two approaches is very enlightening. I'm happy (or maybe relieved) to read the two lists and find my wife clearly in the 2nd camp.

I also want to thank Gordie for examining the idea of being controlling. If you had asked me 9 months ago whether I thought I was being overly controlling I would have scoffed and said, "Are you kidding? My W can do whatever she wants!" But these days I can see things from a different point of view.

How was I controlling?

1. I always picked what we would do and where we would go for dates and getaways. This wouldn't have been a problem if I had taken some time to plan things that I knew she would like (even if I didn't). But I never did that.

2. I could only guarantee a pleasant disposition in social gatherings if they were with my family or my long time friends. Otherwise, my behavior was a crapshoot.

3. Being a musician and a music snob, I ALWAYS picked the music we would listen to at home or in the car. And I would ALWAYS get tickets to see bands that I approved of. What's worse I would ALWAYS be disparaging when it came to the music she liked but I didn't.

4. I controlled the sexual atmosphere in our relationship. My W prefers an aggressive man. And there were plenty of times when she would turn me down and I would opt for porn instead of trying harder.

5. I was adamant about the house we purchased 8 years ago and the mini-van we bought 2 years ago. Last year she told me that she really didn't agree on either of those decisions, but went along with it.

This last one clearly shows that I can't bear ALL of the blame here. There were plenty of times when my W decided it would be best not to speak up. If she had, I might not be writing this right now.

But guess what? My W's first husband was 100x more controlling. She brought that baggage into our marriage and we never really worked through it. If you combine her unresolved issues from her first marriage with the behaviors I listed above we were definitely sitting on a ticking time bomb.

I'm getting a bit off topic here, but it's really a good exercise for me and anyone else who might be in a position to re-think how they might have controlled their relationship.

[PacLove]

PacLove. Your breakdown of the two approaches is very enlightening. I'm happy (or maybe relieved) to read the two lists and find my wife clearly in the 2nd camp.

I'm no expert - but just tidbits I've gathered through online reading, forums and books. And I don't think there is ever a guarantee. Something I also think we as men need to decide - do we want to try and save the marriage and remain hopeful - at the cost of some potential self-esteem and ability to move on or do we want to be completely ambivalent and whatever happens happens. I think in the former you definitely want to be more in the friends arena whereas the later you may want to be more in the tough love camp.

Gordie - liked your analysis of controlling - I know for me it was not hard to recognize that I was this way but it always felt like we were in an endless tug-of-war with each other and I thought she was controlling as well, what I didn't realise is that she was usually the one to give in.

As for areas where I've been controlling/critical:
- Often supported my parents ideas/expectations
- Pushed intimacy
- Often tried to get involved in her plans offering unsolicited suggestions/ideas
- Was more of a free spender and she wasn't able to say no
- Wanted to celebrate holidays my way instead of "our" way
- Called her out where I felt she fell short on household responsibilities
- Really didn't support her in her career - instead being critical that she worked too much
- Questioned her parenting style

Yeah I was a bit of an a$$ but all areas where I've recognized, changed and being more open and flexible now. Many outsiders, including my IC, however have cautioned me that some of my expectations were not all that "unrealistic" so that has been a challenge for me as I try and see how the M can be going forward.

A good example of this is when it comes to raising our daughter and basic household responsibilities (cooking, laundry, repairs & maintenance, finances, cars) I pretty much do most. W would need to be open to meeting me halfway on some amount of change...

[KevinIn]

Yes, this is totally a common theme. I have struggled with this too. All of our situations are different, but I know in mine...this feeling controlled or trapped...I contributed to it, but it was more than just me. Here's how I've thought about it:

1. What is in the person's own mind/life that makes them feel trapped? Maybe unfulfilled dreams or ambitions (I want an education, I want a career). Maybe identity issues (I don't want to just be a W or mother or Mrs. Gordie). Maybe childhood issues (Jeep74--talking to you).

2. What did the spouse do to make them feel trapped? Did you not listen? Were you selfish--did you put your needs first? Did you control the money? Was sex an issue (pushing unwanted sex or withholding wanted sex)? Were you jealous or suspicious of their other relationships? Were you a snooper? Did you ignore your spouse because of work or a hobby or anything else--porn, video games, etc.?

3. What did society at large do to make them feel trapped? Are you trapped in gender roles? Does the W do all the cooking and cleaning and child care? Do you feel pressured by your community to dress or behave a certain way? Do you feel trapped by your religious upbringing or beliefs? Have you always been the good girl or the nice guy...and you are tired of behaving that way?

For my situation, its interesting that none of the above three categories really applies. We were pretty balanced in all of these.

For us, it was that she perceived me not giving her a voice, being critical of her, and having contempt that she wasn't good enough. The key word is perceived. I think this was the start of all the other things.

Yeah I was a bit of an a$$ but all areas where I've recognized, changed and being more open and flexible now. Many outsiders, including my IC, however have cautioned me that some of my expectations were not all that "unrealistic" so that has been a challenge for me as I try and see how the M can be going forward.

This same thing applies to me. Its hard to comprehend how i was being controlling when some of the things are actually good for a family. She actually said one time that i was too involved and too intense as a dad. So, i'm being punished for being a too involved dad who was passionate about his family. That's a tough one for me to justify.

I like the conversation. Good points from all involved!!

.

[PacLove]

This same thing applies to me. Its hard to comprehend how i was being controlling when some of the things are actually good for a family. She actually said one time that i was too involved and too intense as a dad. So, i'm being punished for being a too involved dad who was passionate about his family. That's a tough one for me to justify.

I like the conversation. Good points from all involved!!

.

I think it all boils down to the approach and how we "work" together going forward. One of the things my IC said is we never sat down and talked about R&R's - funny as that's something I emphasize doing in my job with my staff. So each of us "assumed" that the other was doing something when weren't. I know going forward if/as we re-engage this will be a necessary discussion and probably weekly a check-in on how things are going and who's doing what...

One thing I forgot on the controlling side is that I was definitely guilty of snooping and wanting to know what she was up to, calling/texting more than usual - but this really only came out in the last 2 years when I started getting suspicious about the A.

[KevinIn]

... we never sat down and talked about R&R's - funny as that's something I emphasize doing in my job with my staff.

One thing I forgot on the controlling side is that I was definitely guilty of snooping and wanting to know what she was up to, calling/texting more than usual - but this really only came out in the last 2 years when I started getting suspicious about the A.

What do you mean by R&Rs?

The snooping didn't start for me until 1.5 months after she told me about the A, and when she wanted a 'break.' It lasted about 3 weeks. I regret it now. Thankfully i stopped snooping.

[Chris73]

What do you mean by R&Rs?

Assuming "roles and responsibilities"...

AND, I totally forgot about the snooping, which I also really started doing after the A was revealed.

[PacLove]

Yup Roles and Responsibilities.... snooping still taunts me from time to time but when you realise it only does more harm than good it's pretty easy to stop.

[PacLove]

Started a new thread:
http://www.divorcebusting.com/forums/ubbthreads.php?ubb=showflat&Number=2733325&#Post2733325