Hi all, M-49, H-47 S1: 8 Married: 8.5 years Together: 9 years BD: 12/9/16 H moved out: 1/24/17
I just joined and this is my first post. I'm in a whirlwind trying to "play my cards right" while I'm also focusing on myself - and I would like your help! I have ordered the DR book and eager to receive and read it.
My husband dropped the D bomb on my 12/9/16, saying he is not in love with me and was never in love with me and that we have "fundamental differences", but he would not say what those are! I do not take it personally at all as I know now that he said that as a story he had to tell himself to lessen his guilt.(And, he said the same thing to his first wife when he left her). I know he was in love with me and still loves me today. Yes, I agreed with him though that I can see he is not "in love" with me right now. He assures me there is no one else and is not interested in anyone.
I requested he stay in our home through the holidays. We have an 8 year old son together. During that time I went to work on Me. I lost 15 lbs, became very interested in him, we reconnected on emotional levels and became sexually active again. For a while, it was going well. However, a month ago, he moved out into a apt he calls his "man cave". He told me that he is not 100% done, and that he needs baby steps. However, it seems as if he has pulled further away since moving out.
He took off his wedding rings, he said he wants to "step out of the marriage" to see if he feels a missing. He said he feels like a fraud in all areas of his life and he needs to wipe the slate clean, beginning with his marriage (me and our son). He has been failing at his business and struggling for the past 1.5 years financially.
Background: Second marriage for both of us. He left his first wife telling her, what? "I am not in love with you and never was." Yes, sound familiar? He met me when he is unemployed, struggling to find his groove in life...I picked him up and allowed him the oppty to start a business. He loved it. Then 1.5 years ago, we moved to the the East Coast, from the West Coast. He has started another business, a dream business, but it is SLOW going and frustrating to him. Well, things have gotten hard. Our son is no longer a baby. I took a $20,000 pay cut in my job. H is flailing at his businesses. Now all of sudden, H wants to walk away.
Last weekend, we attended my father's funeral - yep, my two strongest men left me in a matter of a short time - one by choice, then other not - both as suddenly. During the time out of town, he continued to be distant and aloof. At the funeral, he was affectionate, holding hands, arm around me, comforting. Immediately following the funeral, before we were out the doors - back to being aloof and distant.
He is out of town alone for a couple weeks - in order to prep our rental home to sell on the West Coast. During this time, I have some reprieve to "Go Dark". However, I ask myself is that the loving thing I should do - is that something I would be proud of myself doing? I just haven't gotten my mind wrapped around the good of that. My husband still is being friendly, but in that cool and distant way. He'll talk all day long as long as I don't bring up anything relationship, us, marriage, lessons learned - anything! about us or pertaining to us at all.
When he calls to say goodnight to our son, he just wants to speak with him mainly and I haven't spoken with him. UGH - please do I engage him with positive, witty banter or do I just ignore him unless he asks for me.
I really need to know how to "play my cards right". Thanks for reading and responding!!
M: 49 H: 47 Son: 8 DBomb: Dec 9, 2016 H moved out: Jan 24, 2017
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support). Especially on this Newcomers forum, where the posting activity is very active, and your posts can quickly fall to the bottom of the page or even several pages down. Keep journaling and asking questions - people will come! Most important - POST!
Get out and Get a Life (GAL). DETACH.
Believe none of what he or she says and half of what he/she does.
Have NO EXPECTATIONS.
Take care of yourself, breathe, eat, sleep, exercise.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
Here are a few links to threads that will help you immensely:
I'm so happy to have found you. I ordered the DR book and am eagerly awaiting its arrival so I can start reading it.
First my question, then my story: Q: I am torn between to camps of thought on reconciliation. Which should I go with...I know consistency is utmost, so I want to be clear with my actions.
Camp of Thought #1: Always come from love and never manipulation, putting the leaving spouse in the light of love. This is not a religious program. This camp is to love my H, even in the face of rejection, with subtle displays of affection called touch charges and reaching out for talk charges daily. This requires me to call or text H with non-relationship topics that would be of interest to him. In addition, it requires me to subtly touch him at each encounter we have, such as gently placing my hand on his shoulder or when I hand him something to gently graze his fingers. When we have occasion to speak, I need to ask him questions about him in order to reconnect emotionally - non-logistical topics, like a story or joke I recently heard. Then when appropriate and if he is open to it, I should invite him to do something fun and of his interest with me once a week (less if he is obstinate), but never giving up. In essence, this camp of thought is one of love - giving love, doing what is the right thing to do by rising above and not allowing the reaction of the leaving spouse to deter me from my objective - which is to show leaving spouse love and kindness always. While doing these things, I will continue to work on myself and become the best version of me as a wife, mom and person. Here's the deal: My H does not reciprocate to my reaching out to him like this. He will take my hand and hold it, he will engage in conversation, he will be friendly, but he does not offer any kind of emotional reciprocation. This camp of thought would say - great. Unless he tells me to stop it and leave him alone (which he has not), then continue. It will make it harder for him to blame me for M issues and H's unhappiness. It will pierce holes in his story of me being the villan in his reason for leaving. This camp of thought has a very high success rate of marriages reconciling.
Camp of Thought 2: Leave him alone. Be nice when he reaches out to me, but otherwise, do not contact him unless it has to do with our son. Somewhat disappear from my H's life, making him feel the decision he has made. When I see him, be kind, but distant and aloof. Unless he contacts me with a question (and only a question), then I should not respond to him. I should initiate a no contact or go dark with him for a period of time before I re-emerge as someone "new". Thus, resetting his psychological button and perhaps his spark of interest in me.
In BOTH these camps, I will focus on myself and become the best version of who I want my life to be (with or without) my H. In BOTH these camps, I can reamin committed, but not attached, to the outcome for reconciliation.
I'd like to know which camp has the better of the two approaches to my sitch. Below is my sitch: (Thanks for reading this far! I know this is LONG!)
My Sitch: My H is 47. I am 49. We've been married 8 years. Together 9 years. We have an 8 year old son.
My H comes from an Alcoholic dad and a drug addicted mom. His mom gave H up when he was 10. His alcoholic dad took him in and raised him in a bar - literally. When H was 12, his dad remarried a drug addicted bartendar, 20 yrs his junior. She had 2 babies and an XH in jail. I tell you this because it may have bearing. My H spent most his time at a neighbor friend's house, where he primarily grew up. His stepmom kicked him out at 18. H joined army, went thru bootcamp and dropped out. Went back home at 19, and went thru various labor jobs. He married his 1st wife at 28. They were together for 4 years, until he told her "I'm not in love with you and probably never was." He walked away. He held several more various jobs and walked away from each when the going got tough. He also went to Pharm Tech school and worked as that until he lost interest. Fast forward several years. At 37, he and I (40) met. He was a sales call of mine. There was something in his voice that sent chills down my spine. I asked him if I could call him later that evening. When I called him, he and I "fished around" for information. Lots of flirting when we discovered we were both single, available and age appropriate. When we finally met, it was like we were meant to be. We just clicked. I said, "I'm not into games. I want to be married and pregnant within in a year. Are you in or are you out?" He said, "I'm in. When do we start?" Within the next 9 months, he had moved in with me, engaged, got pregnant and were married. There were some rocky roads and some awesome roads - ups and downs, but like I said we had both been married once before. I knew the reality of marriage and was committed from the day I said I do. You may by now realize I'm a fighter and he's a flee'r. When I asked him what it was about me that he fell in love with when we met, he said, "You were a strong woman who knew what you wanted and knew how to get it." Somewhere along the road, I lost that confidence and strength in myself - I'm here now rediscovering it. Anyway....
Four months ago, my 48 yr old sister and her 50 yr old H went through a rough patch where her H was going to leave her. She came to our house many nights to vent and unload. They had been married 25 years. Since then they have worked it out and are continuing to improve.
When my H dropped the bomb, he told me that he had been thinking of D'ing me for a while, but when he witnessed my sister's M drama, he made up his mind, he didn't want to be married for 25 years and then divorce. (I can't really see the logic in this as it would make more sense to me if H would have said to me, hey, I'm thinking similarly as your sister's H and we need to get some help asap so we can have an extraordinary marriage at 25 years, instead of wanting a D. Anyway.....) I knew our marriage had gotten in a rut. We had both withdrawn and pulled back. We were irritated and not sexual with each other. We still got along, but you know what I mean.
When he DB, I took it as a come to jesus wake up call like none other!! I got into action. It was the first time he had taken a stand for himself without backing down to me and it got my respect and attention! I began the Camp of Thought #1 program and made some headway. H and I started talking, we began having sex, GREAT sex, and we were reconnecting. He did not and has not mentioned D since that DB day. He now says he is not 100% done and he is ok with baby steps, but that he wants to be the one to pursue me and ask me out on dates. He is not open to reconciliation remedies "right now". He is still not in love with me "right now". His words. Since he moved out, he has been more concerned with furnishing his new "man cave", than spending time with me or our son. I don't recognize him. He carries himself differently - like a 25 yr old. He tries giving me high fives. He is using slang like a young kid. Seriously, who is this man? He assures me there is no one else. I believe him. There is no evidence. He has been struggling at work - financially he is in the toilet. He mentioned to me that he is tired of losing in all areas of his life and that he feels like he's been a fraud. He is wanting a clean slate, starting with moving out and "stepping out of the marriage" to see if he feels a missing. Then he will begin to clean up his business affairs. We have not been sexual since his move out date a month ago. Now that brings you up to date with where we are in our M or separation, either way.
He will respond to me when I stroke his ego, reach for him, give him attention - he thrives on social interaction and soaks it up when I offer it to him, as long as it is not about us, relationship or moving back home.....however, recall I am getting nothing in return! He is often distant and aloof with me in our interactions, though not always. He is in and out; in and out; in and out. It's like groundhog day for me. The day will begin and I'll reach out to him...he'll start to warm up and by the eve he'll have been receptive. Then the next day, it starts all over....distant and aloof, then warm up, then receptive, then next day, all over!
Well, again, I'm sorry this has been so long. If you are still reading a HUGE THANK YOU!! I truly appreciate your comments on (1) is this a MLC or an "I'm done....see ya" sitch and (2) which camp should I continue with?? I know the bottom decision rests with me, but I sure would like y'all's input!! Thanks in advance.
PS He is out of town for two weeks. When he calls, it is either about the sale of our home or to speak with our son. I have been texting him first thing in am with a good morning msg and kindness. That's all I'm reaching out to him....everything else he reaches this way. While he is gone, I'm exercising, bleaching my teeth, getting contacts, getting hair done and overall vamping up my value, self-worth and confidence both inside and out. I'm trying to get my groove back, though I'll admit it's not always easy....I do still have crying outbursts and depressive fits. OK, now you're all up to date.
M: 49 H: 47 Son: 8 DBomb: Dec 9, 2016 H moved out: Jan 24, 2017
Just keep POSTING and one other bit of advice from Wonka that I totally agree with.
Originally Posted By: Wonka
Get DR/DB book. Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
We have seen too many Marriages blow up in pieces after the WAS discovers the DB site or DR book. Why is that? It is because the WAS thinks, erroneously I might add, that you are "manipulating" them back into the M.
Keep the DR book and DB site very close to your vest.
I'm torn on your two camps of thought. Honestly, I tried your first camp with my ex. I did the things you suggest - the touching, joking, etc. Didn't work. And by the time I figured it out, it was too late. However, if you've read any of my story, the DB techniques failed miserably and caused her to run. Sigh.
Honestly, you know your husband best. Some will say go turkey, some won't. I'm on the fence. If he was/is in an affair, the cold turkey is your only option...if he isn't, then I'd do parts of number one. The thing to remember is that he doesn't want to be married anymore, and therefore if you do too much of the love/touch, it will push him away. It's a fine line you must walk. We will be here to guide you, but its your road.
Speaking of roads, just remember he is on his own road now...and unfortunately it doesn't have room for you. You must travel your own road. Sure you can leave room for him if he so chooses to travel it, but just know its his choice. No one else's.
Quote:
I have been texting him first thing in am with a good morning msg and kindness. That's all I'm reaching out to him..
It may be a better idea to stop this. I did the same thing.
Keep on keeping on. Your ideas are great and it seems like you are light years ahead of where I was.
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
As you may tell, I'm not patient. I want some reassurance from him, which is not coming and I refuse to ask for it - shows neediness and that's completely unattractive! I'm walking my path as if it'll be me and my son walking this together - I'm looking at creating a new life for us. My dynamics with my son have changed considerably since my H left. My son is so much more reliant on me alone now. My H loves my son adoringly, but he is not here that often physically. For an 8 year old, that is a huge deal. His daddy is absent and he is sad and angry. Guess who gets that fun dealing with that? I just want my husband - not as he is - but once he comes to a place of understanding what he wants and chooses me/son/family unit, whatever its called....basically wants to be married and have a family with me and our son. I don't know if that'll happen, and I'm holding my intentions on that, while behaving in the best interests of me and my son.
I loved your input. I will continue to practice camp #1 and incorporate from the DR book techniques as appropriate. I think I'll be here a while!
M: 49 H: 47 Son: 8 DBomb: Dec 9, 2016 H moved out: Jan 24, 2017
As Cadet said, patience is a virtue. Unfortunately, I suffer from not having any. You do seem light years ahead of where I was. Good on ya!
Quote:
My son is so much more reliant on me alone now. My H loves my son adoringly, but he is not here that often physically. For an 8 year old, that is a huge deal
Mine is the same way. Their mother is stationed in another state and seems them two weekends a month...outside of Skype, that's it.
Quote:
Guess who gets that fun dealing with that?
Same...
Quote:
while behaving in the best interests of me and my son.
I like this. Seems as if you know what you have to do and are on the path to doing it.
Thank you for the kind words, ma'm.
There are moments in this life when you are so confident in the rightness of your actions, that not even for a second do you consider the option that you might be wrong.
Just received my DR book!! YAY! Going to be devouring it tonight. INTENTION: Reconciliation GOAL1: Wholeness/Happiness for self GOAL2: Self-confidence/Self-reliance without spouse GOAL3: Be BEST version of myself as a mom and person ACTION1: Read DR book ACTION2: Continue working out 5X week ACTION3: Meet with IC ACTION4: Meet with Doctor (maybe to get some xanax or something to help through the tough spots) ACTION5: Start a new business ACTION6: START LAUGHING MORE! ACTION7: ENJOY TIME WITH MY SON!!!!! INACTION1: Stop texting H unless he texts me first INACTION2: Stop expecting ANYTHING from H INACTION3: Stop looking to H for signs of reassurance
Is there anything else I should be including, you can think of??
I think this will get me back on track to myself and maybe even attract my H...at least I'm now clear on a game plan. Stay tuned!! I'm sure there'll be more to come.
M: 49 H: 47 Son: 8 DBomb: Dec 9, 2016 H moved out: Jan 24, 2017
