Newbie, need help with WAW!

[180Man]

Hi 180,

I think Sandi's advice on the nice guy is most applicable to the LBS who is having an affair rubbed in their noses and thinking that becoming super H is the answer. Taking care of the cooking, cleaning, yardwork, kids etc. while the WW does whatever she pleases. The LBS thinks “Hey, look over here! See how much I love you?” and that’ll win the WW. The nice guy needs to set boundaries so the WW can start to respect them again. A woman can’t love a man she doesn’t respect.

Unless I missed something in your posts, I don’t see that. Are there boundaries you need to set? Are you doing any Super H things?

In your first post, you wrote “I felt like being nice and giving her space was just not doing anything. I felt like she was walking all over me and didn’t respect me for trying to make things work.”

How was she walking all over you? How did she show you disrespect? How long do you think this will take to turn around?

I was starting to think that exact thing a couple hours ago -- that perhaps Sandi's posts were directed more at someone who's wife was currently having an affair. This affair, by all accounts, is over and has been for some time. So I feel like I'm in some inbetween phase between a WW and a WAW.

I don't know how long it will take to turn around. Could be never. Conceptually I understand this, but emotionally I still need to come to terms with it.

It felt like the more space I gave her, the more emotional distance she placed between us. She was slowly walling herself off. In counseling I would show up ready to listen and validate and she was often not completely open. She's very intelligent and could wordsmith her way around the counselor's questions. The counselor called her on it once or twice, but I felt like I was putting myself out there, trying to work on our marriage despite her affair, and she wasn't putting in the real effort. She would say "I know it doesn't seem like I'm trying, but I am, and the fact that I'm here should show that." And, yes, I agree, but showing up is only the first step. And she couldn't even do that for more than six weeks. I felt I was digging deep and trying to own my problems in the marriage and all she was doing was trying to find all of our faults.

Have no expectations with the meeting with her. You called her out on talking face to face and then she asks to talk face to face. At least she’s listening. And I think Kaizen nailed it; being strong and empathetic are not mutually exclusive. You show strength by listening and understanding her point of view. You should use a lot of “I see your point of view”, “I understand that you feel that way”.

There is no reason to tell her you guys should work on things or let her know you want this to work out. She knows. Listen, validate and let her do all the talking.

You can do this.

I hear what you guys are all saying. I met with my individual counselor today -- the same woman who saw both of us for the first week before suggesting we might be better served by the infidelity expert on staff -- that second counselor was garbage and didn't care about us as I think I detailed in my first post. Anyways, so she knows my wife to a point, obviously she hasn't seen her in a couple months, but it's at least a better foundation than a counselor who hasn't met your spouse. I explained to her this morning how I felt like I had these two paths I could choose with this coffee meeting and she agreed that I had, indeed, tried to validate and listen in marriage counseling. She said she didn't want to coach me and felt that from listening to me I already knew what path to take -- the strong/confident/tell her what's up path. She does believe that validation is a good idea but thinks it would be bad for both of us if I were to just show up and let her say whatever and basically get steam rolled.

So, when I listen to her or my close friends, it makes sense. But when I read what you guys are writing here, that also makes sense. Perhaps I do have more of a WAS at this point, I'm not sure. It seems Sandi has a different take on dealing with the WAS mentality, so perhaps I should go read that some and see how I feel about it all.

Thanks for your input, I just need to keep thinking I guess.