A WW? (7)

[lt0402]

Short and simple, keep focused on you. Where you strayed from the path of a strong supportive husband. Where you can improve. How you can best lead your family forward.

For me I think that would look like improved validation skills, a detachment from what you think her issues are, and a decrease of expectations as to what you want from her right now. I think these things are imperative to the survival of your marriage. And VALIDATE, DETACH, NO EXPECTATIONS is hardly a new concept. I'm just talking about how this looks in his situation based on what I've read so far.

Zues, very good thoughts around this. I'll be the first to admit, that while i've tried to consistently validate, I've not always been that great at it. Alot of times w/ the anger that comes from my W, i find myself quickly needing to choose bt validating and standing for my boundary. I'm not sure i always make the right choice and it leads to alot of second guessing. This all is an iterative process it seems, and I'm hoping to learn from each interaction and adapt to what i may or may not have done wrong. Appreciate the kind words and helpful thoughts brother!

Gordie, first off, awesome and useful advice. Here's a few thoughts:

1. Stop text messaging unless it is purely about logistics or about kids or to communicate need to know concrete details. That means no open ended questions like how is your day or how are you feeling. Try to go a whole day without any text messages and then another...

Generally I'd agree with this. For me, i've spent so much time not communicating with her, even via text, that I'd wanted to try a 180 there. You're right about the open ended questions though. They either get ignored or ignite some vitriol from her end. Perhaps I'll go back to the more "business" oriented texting approach. Need to give that some thought.

2. When you are listening, make eye contact and just listen without interruption or distraction. If there is a natural pause in the conversation, you can validate what you heard...or you can ask questions to show that not only are you listening, but that you are interested to know more about what she thinks and feels...someone here said remember TED and that has been helpful to me: (a) tell me more about... (b) explain to me what you mean by... and (c) describe what XXX is...

TED, awesome! Going to borrow that one. All of the above seems like great advice.

3. Instead of giving answers, even when asked for answers, do a 180 and change from the guy with ALL the answers to the guy with NO answers...this takes humility...learn how to say...I don't know...I'm not sure...I need more time to think about that...can I get back to you on that tomorrow...that is way outside of my expertise...

You're right, i'm not used to being the guy w/o the answers. Historically I've been very quick to look for/provide solutions. Will be on guard for this. One thing I'm not sure of though is the house stuff with regards to this whole sell the house, rent another one thing. Immediately that seems like a bad idea to me. Perhaps the best approach is to validate the idea, take it away to think about it, and then come back with my thoughts. Unsure how to do that w/o it sounding like i'm attacking her.

Above all, be genuine, if you come across as fake it will backfire...

Yep. I'm a pretty informal guy, so trying to craft alot of this stuff into an informal tone is tough for me. Work in progress. Thanks Gordie!

still haven't solved the lack of respect issue. You have way more patients for that than I do.

unsure if that patience is a good or bad thing at this point MV. I agree that the respect thing is still a large issue in all this, but man it gets tiring being on guard and watching for her stepping over my boundary all the time. I've stood my ground with her at times, but haven't been as firm as we've all discussed. being as that's one of the only things i haven't tried w/ regards to the disrespect, perhaps that's the next step here. Open to your thoughts my friend as always. Appreciate your steady and honest presence here brother.

No one should tolerate blatant disrespect.

Agree w/ you Zues. One of the consistent issues in my situation has been a large amount of disrespect from my W. It's ebbed and flowed throughout this, but it was rough in the beginning. Some of what is being perceived as bad behavior on my end may be me overreacting to the perceived disrespect from my W. There was a stretch during this where I was being attacked multiple times per day by W and I had to stand my ground very firmly. I almost wonder if that's ingrained/trained this behavior in me and now i see an affront from her, even when there is none. Unsure, but man is it hard to have an unbiased view when you're living in the middle of this thing.

When I talk about validation, I'm assuming that WAS is just making a few nasty spew comments here and there. If she says "Why bother talking about it, nothing I say is going to matter anyway" in a nasty tone, there is no reason not to validate and say "I understand you've felt that I haven't heard your voice in our marriage. You must've felt very neglected. I can see why you'd be angry after all these years, and why you wouldn't want to bother talking to me about things anymore."

For me, I've gotten to a point where i can mostly control the initial emotional response to my Ws comments. I'm able to keep that balance during our conversations as well. It's taken awhile, but it's one skill that I've been able to get down. I do have a difficult time pushing through the validation piece though. Each time I attempt to do it, my W responds w/ "Would you stop with the therapy talk". This is one skill i've yet to be able to hone.

Then stop, just stop. No "But if you talk to me now it will be different" or anything. No. Because we want to communicate with ACTIONS, NOT WORDS. By validating and shutting up we are SHOWING her we can listen. But trying to validate and then trying to get her to have a conversation she didn't want to have we are showing her we aren't listening or respecting her preferences, which proves we didn't mean what we said. See? Validate and STFU.

Read, understood, and stored away. This is excellent reading and good advice.

BUT- if behavior is truly disrespectful...name calling, swearing, screeching, flaunting another man in your face, saying nasty things to your child about you...THEN you need to put a stop to it. That's a boundary. That's where you simply say "I won't carry on a conversation with this type of disrespect. I'm willing to speak to you when you've calmed down." Then walk away. Or "It hurts our child when they are in the middle of this. We both need to speak respectfully about each other when we're around our child. Can you agree to that?" (If not, talk to your lawyer)

Lived this for a few months. Not a fun place to be in. Led to a massive blowup b/t us in August. Many a times did i exit a conversation. This type of behavior had an interesting effect on her and seemed to bring her back into balance somewhat. When i mentioned being trained above to control my emotion, etc, this was the battleground where it happened. Bleh, thinking about all that makes me a bit sick. Not a fun time.

All in all, there are fine lines between being a pushover, being a strong man, and being a jacka$$. Don't be a pushover, but don't be a jacka$$. When things are outside of your boundaries, validate. Focus on your behavior to lead your family the best you can. When things cross your boundaries, defend yourself without retaliating or controlling. Just be strong. Let the water crash upon the rocks.

Agree on all of the above. I have a hard time finding that balance. To be honest, having lived in this messed up dynamic for so long, i have a hard time knowing what IS balanced at this point. I think that's a reason why i have a difficult time discerning when to stand firmly and when to validate. A work in progress. I love the thought of letting the water crash upon the rocks. Very relevant to all of this.

As I look back at my sitch I have navigated through a lot of crap. Attempted suicide while she had primary parental time, a string of other men, black out drinking, and a lot of things that could've escalated the situation with me and XW very easily. When I was in tremendous emotional turmoil and grieving the loss of my marriage I was forced with horrible circumstances that forced me to make bold decisions which impacted the lives and well being of my children. I am pretty darn proud that I was able to be strong where I needed to and laid back when strength wasn't needed. As a result, despite her meltdown and insane behavior I have 50% parental time, happy and healthy children, and a professional working relationship with the mother of my children which allows us to cooperate a bit for everyone's best interest- especially the children's. No, my marriage wasn't saved, that was clearly not going to be a possibility. But I have become the man she was a fool to leave and I conducted myself in a way that was best for my family and will never trouble me about what I could've done differently. My life has never been better than it is today.

Wow. Just wow. I'm very sorry you've had to navigate your way through such a horrible situation my friend. You are correct that it takes a strong man to maintain his composure and successfully make it to the other side. You should be very proud of the stability you provided both your kids and, it sounds like, your XW during that. One of the things I've realized as I've ground through this (with everyone's immense help and support) is that things will be fine, regardless of the outcome. It makes me very happy to see that yourself, as well as others, have gotten through this and are thriving! Zues, appreciate your thoughts and support brother!