I saw Jelly's name and couldn't help but read a few posts. She makes a good point, those that diagnose and blame their WAS's render themselves powerless to make positive change. Those that are accountable for their role have a road map for actions they can take that may save their family.
A couple of things stood out for me. I did cut/paste a few of your words, but not to change their meaning, only to organize them into some of the things I noticed.
The first thing is that your WAS seems to be telling you she feels that she has no voice in your relationship. She tells you that she feels you aren't hearing her and that you haven't for many years, and that because of this she endured more pain than she can manage anymore and she doesn't trust you to hear her now. And when she tells you this you disagree some more. Some of those highlights:
Quote:
She says where was I the past ten years when she was begging me to change bc she was unhappy. Where was I when she was doing everything from work to childcare to house stuff.
We haven't had a conversation in years or done anything as a couple in close to ten.
Last Monday when I asked W what she wanted in a new house she told me it didn't matter. She also said "how can we look for a house together when we can't even have a conversation".
She tells me she'd like to rent a house, move all our stuff in there, and then sell our house empty. She says that bc we don't have a ton of furniture it would show better that way. I mention that we could get a storage unit to get stuff into to make the house less cluttered to show.
We talked about the work we need to do and the realtors thoughts about the house. W got mad bc I asked why not buy a house if we find one.
I asked her what she was looking for in a place. She said she didn't care and I would just override her anyway and not listen to her. I told her that's not what I wanted as part of this process. Told her I wanted us to make the decisions as partners. She said we aren't capable of working as a team on anything. I should just find a house and tell her to look at it.
She said she didn't want to buy a house bc I promised to do all sorts of work on this house and I never followed through. I told her I'm sorry she felt that way but I do not agree.
I expressed my concern that we rent a place and can't sell this place. She asked if it was as big of a problem if she was working. I told her it would help but it's still an issue. She said she wanted to go back to work full time but she could t bc of all the house responsibilities. I told her that we should make a list and split the work. I'm happy to help with the workload. She told me there's no way she'd believe me after I didn't do it with this house.
W tells me we have never been a family (ouch). Not once in the past ten years. I tell her I'm sorry she's felt that way but I don't agree with it. She says I never agree with anything anymore.
She starts to talk about D. How D is miserable around me the past 3 weeks. How I haven't listened to her over that period and it's crushed her. I tell W that I'll talk to D and discuss what's going on but that I can manage that with her. I tell her that my relationship with D is the strongest it's ever been.
WAS has her version of reality which is just as right and true and reasonable as you do. And feelings are feelings. They can't be wrong. While you may feel differently than she does, that doesn't mean her feelings aren't real and that her views aren't legitimate.
When I read your responses I can see why she might feel defeated. You aren't hearing anything she is saying. You are minimizing, diminishing, dismissing, disagreeing, or at best placating. You say you want to do things jointly, as long as it fits the relationship repair program you seem to have etched in your mind and meets your timelines as well.
I'd recommend you read the validation cheat sheet a few times a day for a while and to reread some of your posts and conversation highlights.
What if...what if...what if? What if her feelings were legitimate, and because of how you've acted in the past she has suffered and has very valid reasons for being protective of herself and mistrustful of you? Wouldn't this be good information to know if you want to save your marriage?
The next section has to do with the talk of feelings and timelines:
Quote:
I'll not put things on hold for 9 yrs to grind out an existence with someone who does not want to share a life with me.
I tell W that I love D and I love her. But That if this is as good as it gets we need to discuss things. I tell her I'm not ok with anyone being unhappy. That I want each of us to be happy and be a family.
W needs to know that going back to our previous M is unacceptable to me. We will see.
Silence then I told her I can see that you are unhappy and I'm not ok with you being unhappy. W tells me f$ck you, you have no right to tell me that. She gets up, cries, checks on D, blows nose and comes back. I tell her again that I'm not ok with her being unhappy and I'm unhappy too. I tell her that none of us should be unhappy. I need someone who will love me and who will let me love them.
You talk a lot about happy and love. You also talk about what you will and won't accept in your life, which in the context of a marriage that is on the verge of breaking up can escalate things very quickly.
My newcomer advice always includes this disclosure: Don't follow your feelings, they are a horrible compass as they will be bouncing around haywire for a while. Don't trust your thoughts, your thoughts are just rationalizations of your feelings. Instead, follow your BELIEFS. Those are the things you know to be right and are greater than yourself. They will steer you through. I also throw out the challenge that if you can't stick to your beliefs despite how you feel, how can you expect her to do any better? Act with the character you wish she had.
What are your beliefs about divorce? Is it ok to divorce because your spouse doesn't want to work on their marriage the way you feel you should work on it, when you want them to? You throw out timelines and conditions, how do you excuse your own neglect for the last 10 years and now demand her instant prioritization of your needs? Is it because she was wrong to feel that way for 10 years, but you're right to feel the way you feel now?
Personally I think that happiness and love are lousy reasons to talk divorce. Emotions are just a reflection of how we've been treating each other lately. If you learn to treat each other differently, the emotions can and will change. Emotions don't lead, they follow. Love is a decision, not a feeling. And divorce is a decision as well.
In the end no one is going to be 'happy' if happy means getting everything they want. The question is whether we want to be unhappy and separate and blame our spouse and raise children in a broken home setting a poor example that will hurt their future relationships, or do we want to be unhappy and accept that it's because the world is difficult and we don't always get what we want but honor the commitments we made and live for things beyond our current mood so we can be unhappy inside of an intact family with good kids and a dependable partner and maybe somedays when you least expect it realize that love means acting loving when you don't feel like it and you are surprised to feel fulfilled in a way more meaningful than just getting what you thought you wanted at the moment?
lt, I guess what I'm trying to say is that you could benefit from some humility here. DR calls it the beginner's mind. The idea that you may be missing something, there is something going on you might not be able to see if you think you can see it all. I hear you shouting your own narrative of how you see things and what's happening, and it's drowning out what she's telling you.
I get it, it's hard and scary because if you listen to what she's telling you it might not be what you want to hear, and maybe that means you have to accept things you don't want to accept, like the loss of a marriage, or the fact you won't get everything you want in your life, or that you might not always be happy. But there's also a chance that begins a true dialogue the likes of which WAS has been craving for years, and that there is a way for things to work out to a point that, while not able to meet all of your demands, might be wholesome and fulfilling in ways you can't even appreciate right now.
Me:38 XW:38 T:11 years M:8 years Kids: S14, D11, D7 BD/Move out day: 6/17/14, D final Dec 15
