Quote: Sticking point for me right now is having something else be more important than sex. If the M is important, but there is no sex, what does that leave? How many ppl would stay with their spouses if they NEVER had sex and be happy? I'm not saying that it will happen. I'm sure, if I do give up bonking my head over and over in this cheeseless tunnel, that things would be better.
I think you made the leap here that's getting you stuck...that easy back on initiating and respecting his desires = no sex ever.
I don't think that's what's going on, is it? (I certainly don't think you have the data right now). Maybe easing off and really doing what he's asking = him initiating more?
IOW -- I think you're dooming yourself to no sex when I don't think that's what's being "promised".
Why not honestly and truly try to do what he's asking for?
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
I don't know why I don't do what he asks for. I go 'round and 'round with this one. I don't just mean in this area, but also as far as getting along, not starting fights, etc. Guess it's not a secret that I am selfish. I'm more concerned with what I will get out of this r than how to love him. ?? What's wrong with me?
I'm sure I'm making the ASSumption that sex will never happen, I'm sure it will.
Last night h went out by himself. I asked what he did and he didn't seem to want to give much details. (Well, I ought to have learned by now to NOT try to have a convo at 2am). I asked where he went, and you can stay out til 2am by yourself? He said yeah. I even asked who he talked to!!! Then I asked if he was drinking away his sorrows and he said "something like that." *I am feeling really insecure about this wondering if he talked to women or that he will seek introspection and decide that he doesn't want to be with me. UGgg...
I still struggle too with how committed I am to making this m work. Sometimes I think it would be easier to find a new model. I know...gotta re-read or listen to Divorce is Not the Answer. IOW, I continue to do what I know will not work, sabotaging the R. I've done this in other r's until they eventually figure that I don't really want to be w/them and they leave.
thanks for the support. I really appreciate it. Sorry for being such a tough nut to crack. But my wheels are turning and some things are starting to click a little more. karen
Hey, Karen, GIRLFRIEND, point was NOT to beat yourself up!
Quote: I don't know why I don't do what he asks for. I go 'round and 'round with this one. I don't just mean in this area, but also as far as getting along, not starting fights, etc. Guess it's not a secret that I am selfish. I'm more concerned with what I will get out of this r than how to love him. ?? What's wrong with me?
Nothing's WRONG with you...
You COULD ask yourself (in your best Dr. Phil voice) "what am I getting by continuing to act in this manner?"
What if you did a stream-of-consciousness brainstorming on that...honestly? I think the answer may have less to do with you not "wanting" to love him and more about ????
Quote: Last night h went out by himself. I asked what he did and he didn't seem to want to give much details. (Well, I ought to have learned by now to NOT try to have a convo at 2am). I asked where he went, and you can stay out til 2am by yourself? He said yeah. I even asked who he talked to!!! Then I asked if he was drinking away his sorrows and he said "something like that." *I am feeling really insecure about this wondering if he talked to women or that he will seek introspection and decide that he doesn't want to be with me. UGgg...
Karen -- give him some space!
what if you decided that you were going to cut yourself some slack, take good care of YOU and what that meant was that you were going to focus on stuff you can control, focus on you (and JUST you) a bit...wouldn't that also create some calm for him, too?
You HAVE been doing really, really well...don't jump all over yourself for backsliding a bit!
Quote: I still struggle too with how committed I am to making this m work. Sometimes I think it would be easier to find a new model.
You're still going to be bringing your stuff with you to the showroom
How about this? What if you realized that you may not ever meet someone who helps you push your own buttons as well as h...can't you USE that to help you heal?
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Quote: You COULD ask yourself (in your best Dr. Phil voice) "what am I getting by continuing to act in this manner?"
I think I have identified the payoffs, but that still isn't making me change!! This is what I have come up with so far:
If he gets mad at me and stays, it means he really loves me. (Though one day it will be one too many times)
I am getting negative attn. which is better than none. (But, if I would back off from seeking the - attn., and be PATIENT, I will receive more + attn.)
I am trying to get reassurances. (Which he does NOT do anymore.)
I am trying to prove that he is an @sshole, so I can hurry up and end this M before he does something to screw me over. (Ok, that's WAY out there!) (H is a great guy, who would hardly hurt a fly...)
Trying to sabotage for the above reason.
I think that the honest to gosh truth is that I just don't BELIEVE that things will get better, that I will have the love that I want. I have no faith in him, myself, or God! I am afraid that I am doomed to be unhappy. However, as I look back, I've always been depressed about something be it I'm in love w/an unavailable man, I love a man I'm with, but he doesn't love me, I'm single, I'm in an R in which I am unhappy, I don't have a great career, my fam. sux, i need money, etc., etc., etc. I guess I believe I'm destined to live a life of doom and gloom. And yes, I AM on anti-depressants!
How do I unstick myself from that ??? How do I make myself have faith and trust and believe in him, god, and myself???
Quote: How do I unstick myself from that ??? How do I make myself have faith and trust and believe in him, god, and myself???
Jump up and down, spin around three times, run up and down a hundred steps and then take a nap. When you wake up you’ll have hope, faith, trust and religion. Uh, NOPE!
The answer to that question is different for everybody!
Trust and faith aren’t light switches, they aren’t instantaneous feelings.
But what have you done in attempt to achieve that state? What works and what doesn’t work? Not in regards to your marriage, but in the line of your personal feelings on trust and faith? What books have you read, religious groups have you joined, length of time you’ve acted-as-if…etc?
"It is not easy to find happiness in ourselves, and it is not possible to find it elsewhere."
--Agnes Repplier, writer and historian
Quote: Jump up and down, spin around three times, run up and down a hundred steps and then take a nap. When you wake up you’ll have hope, faith, trust and religion. Uh, NOPE!
Why didn't you tell me that that doesn't work BEFORE I tried it 6 times???
I've read lots of spiritual books, go to church on occasion, talk to others about God. I was reading "Lies Women Believe," and I need to get back to it. Kind of a bible study on how the devil messes with our minds. I waiver so much in whether or not I believe the whole story is true about God. But, it wouldn't hurt anything to believe it!! I used to know for sure that he was there, but I guess, I feel like He has forsaken me, though, I know He really doesn't do that!!
I just haven't been able to figure out why He would let me live with such pain. But, then again, he only gives us what we can handle and gives us stuff to teach us lessons.
I just talked to H on the phone about what we are doing tonight. He mentioned going to a bike store up here, so I told him to let me know if that's what he wanted to do. He seemed somewhat cold and distance. I just fear that he really doesn't like me. So, I just Bob Barkered him and ended the call. He was also mowing the lawn w/a push mower b/c our riding mower is broken. So, maybe he was just unhappy about that.
You are getting some wonderful advise here and it looks like you are making some huge strides in identifing your hurdles.
You are an awesome person and I know you will work though this in your own special style.
I have a book of daily devotions for growth and peace of mind. I found this one that talks of what you mentioned about getting unstuck.
Quote: Shhhhh! Don’t tell that story again! Do not talk about how you were done so wrong by so many bad people. Do not talk about him, her or them unless it will make you feel better right now. Hush! Don’t utter another syllable about he pain, the losses that have left you broken, unless you are ready to recover right now. Stop it! Stop dragging yourself back there, reminding yourself of how bad it was for you then unless it has some relevance to what you are doing right now. Each time you think about, talk about, or remember then, you put that energy squarely in the middle of your life right now.
Of course you must acknowledge how you feel about all the things you have experienced. You must not, however, tell the story in a manner that makes you feel bad right now. Tell what you learned! Tell how you have healed! If you look at your story, there is probably a great deal you can use right now to move forward. When, however, you find yourself stuck on the details that break your heart, you are telling the story in the wrong way, for the wrong reasons.
Yes, you must inspect the details of your life in order to accept your share of the responsibility. In fact, each time you tell your story you discover new levels of understanding and forgiveness. When you approach the sordid details of your life from this perspective, you will propel yourself into a higher state of being. When, however, you are telling the story and it makes you feel bad, do not tel that story! Tell a story, any story, that will take into account the wonderful opportunity you have before you to write a new story.
Until today, you may have been telling the story of how bad it used to be. Just for today, rethink your conclusions, pray for understanding, then write a new story that begins where you are right now. Today I am devoted to laying down the old story and writing a new script that begins with right now!
Hi Karen - Looking back at your posts, we seem to have some unresolved doubts which may be contributing to the current wave of difficulties. Here are some extracts from April 9th:
Quote: Got into it a little w/h last night. I think to myself, "this is not DB'ing," but continue to do it anyway. For some reason I feel the NEED to express all of my opinions/feelings/emotions
Yup, we all have this need, and though expressing ourselves on this BB goes some way, there really is no substitute to venting directly at the source. I promise myself that the day will come, but until the time is right, I'll 'practice' here
Quote: He says he will give me what I want when he gets what he wants and vice versa. What he wants from me-more emotional stability in our r (as in less/no crazy-making), to get along, to have pleasant time together, for me to trust him and to feel secure in our r, to believe in him, and to not assume the worst in him.
This is good stuff. He has told you what he wants, and in return he will give you what you want. You have done a great job in identifying self saboteurs - but how are you going to kill these destructive emotions?
Quote: I am afraid of wasting time (even tho I have wasted SO much in the past 4 1/3 years. **We really COULD have it so good!!!
Karen, the devil is both in details and alternatives. Why are you afraid you may be wasting time - what do you have to do with your time that is worth more to you than travelling on a rewarding journey with H?
Quote: I don't trust MYSELF-my opinions, thoughts, feelings, beliefs, etc. I'm afraid that if I believe that my H is wonderful, I will be blind-sided and he will f me over somehow. I am afraid to venture away from what my parents taught me about men and about myself. ie being worthless, and irresponsible, and an a-hole...
This could poison you for the rest of your life, if left unresolved. I encourage you to cut yourself some slack, ease up on the expectations, and love yourself You must be able to trust yourself, even while acknowledging that you may make mistakes on the way, and allowing yourself to do so.
Mostly I found that in order to stop pursuing a particular cheeseless tunnel, I had to find other tunnels that HAD cheese. How about working on these identified issues within yourself, and leaving the ML bits alone for a couple of weeks? Just a thought. big hug, slowly
Quote: Mostly I found that in order to stop pursuing a particular cheeseless tunnel, I had to find other tunnels that HAD cheese . How about working on these identified issues within yourself, and leaving the ML bits alone for a couple of weeks? Just a thought.
This is SO DARNED SMART.
Wow. It never occurred to me (duh moment) that a GREAT way to back myself out of cheeseless tunnels was to find the cheese for certain somewhere else.
Brilliant!
Sage
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
You must be able to trust yourself, even while acknowledging that you may make mistakes on the way, and allowing yourself to do so.