My WW and the Great Sandi2 Experiment - part 2

[Rose888]

Unfortunately you just have to let her go with out pushing anything. In a perfect M she would be asking you to go with her and telling you all the details. But like must of use on here we are in bad M and just have to accept them they way they are because if you push the subject it will only make it worse.

I am with you because my W told me last month that she was going away for a weekend with the girls but then she never went. I knew it was not the girls because I know some of them. I just had to bite my lip and say have fun. It is very hard to do but over time it becomes easier. I still get a little emotional when I know she is lying to me but not nearly as bad as before. I just mentally prepare myself to let it go.

Good idea on the fiances. On the D thing I would not bring it up unless you are willing to hear that she wants a divorce. Because that is an option. Do not ask a question that you are not willing to hear what you do not want to hear.

I disagree that in a perfect marriage she would ask you to go with her.

I think a perfect marriage has room for each spouse to build friendships and have independent adventures.

Chris, I get why it's rough on you in this particular case because of OMs.

Is this something new in your marriage--for her to travel with friends?

[MoveFrwd]

[quote=Chris73She then elaborated that she has plans to go away for 2 days over the Presidents Day weekend, and she also has plans to go to Florida for 5 days in March.

I felt like a servant. I have rearrange my work schedule and make arrangements for my kids to get picked up from school while she's out partying in Florida? EFF THAT!! [/quote]

Im a little confused on one thing. If you are planning to share parenting time evenly, how is she scooting off for 5 days? Why are YOU rearranging your schedule to accommodate this? It seems like she should be trying to figure out how to make sure the kids are cared for, not you. If you are separated, she should be ASKING you if you can watch them extra, not TELLING you that you need to.

[MoveFrwd]

In a perfect M she would be asking you to go with her and telling you all the details.

I disagree that in a perfect marriage she would ask you to go with her.

I think a perfect marriage has room for each spouse to build friendships and have independent adventures.

I agree with Rose. Though if my partner told me that they were "going to Florida for 5 days", I'd want to know a lot more detail. Id for sure ask who was going, where theyre staying, what kinds of stuff theyre doing. Not necessarily because of a lack of trust, but because Id want to be involved in that person's life and be a part of what they are excited about.

But I wouldnt feel like I had to be invited if it was just a same-sex weekend getaway. I would say that if it was a couple's event, I would definitely feel left out and hurt to not get an invitation.

[Gordie]

I agree with Rose and Kaizen. And remember you can only control you. When I have a discussion I'm not happen with, I replay it with how I'd like it to go next time. Example:

W: Hey, I just want you to know I'm planning a five day trip to Florida in March and want you to watch the kids.

Chris: That sounds fun. What are the details? I'll make sure to take the time off of work.

If this is a normal conversation, then W will then tell you the dates/who is going/where they are staying, etc.

If it feels feels weird, then it is because you think she is hiding something and/or lying. That's a different issue, not the trip.

[MoveFrwd]

When I have a discussion I'm not happy with, I replay it with how I'd like it to go next time. Example:

W: Hey, I just want you to know I'm planning a five day trip to Florida in March and want you to watch the kids.

Chris: That sounds fun. What are the details? I'll make sure to take the time off of work.

In a normal relationship, sure.

But she FIRED you. Why would you volunteer to take off work so she can go party in Florida? Shes an adult - she should be the one figuring out those kinds of childcare arrangements.

[Chris73]

So many great responses. Thanks Everyone. I'll try to respond to each:

In this forum I often give the benefit of the doubt to the spouse claims that he/she is going out/away with friends. In your case, you're certain she's had an affair with OM1 and OM2 in the past, so I feel less of an instinct to give her the benefit of the doubt, but I do wonder really if this particular trip is innocent.

You shouldn't go snooping, but if you become aware that she is continuing with an EA and/or a PA, does that cross a boundary? If so, what will you do to protect your integrity and sanity?

These days I'm not sure of anything. I know that she has a history of lying to me. I also know that my excessive snooping, jealousy and paranoia which resulted in confrontations on several occasions over the past 9 months has made her very closed off and unwilling to share any details of her life with me. I am not 100% convinced that there is an OM in the picture right now. I certainly don't have any proof. We agreed at the beginning of our separation that we would not date. And she has insisted several times that she is not involved in any other relationship right now. But again, the trust has been broken and she hasn't done much to repair it.

The reality of giving her the ultimatum of divorce if she truly is having an affair is a decision that I may have to make eventually, but I have to be fully prepared to walk away if she says ok. And right now, I'm not sure that I am.

I disagree that in a perfect marriage she would ask you to go with her.

I think a perfect marriage has room for each spouse to build friendships and have independent adventures.

Chris, I get why it's rough on you in this particular case because of OMs.

Is this something new in your marriage--for her to travel with friends?

I agree rose, although jealousy is something that I've grappled with all my life and clearly stems from my own insecurities. The good thing is that my current sitch has helped me to deal with this, but it's taken a long time and I'm still not completely free of my jealous tendencies.

If this truly is a girls getaway, I'm all for it. For the first 7 years of our marriage she lost touch with all of her friends (mostly because being a mom took up all her energy). But she is a self-described people person and always craves social situations with lots of people. So I think this trip is another attempt for her to try to get her life back. To finally do something for herself. In her mind, it's long overdue.

Im a little confused on one thing. If you are planning to share parenting time evenly, how is she scooting off for 5 days? Why are YOU rearranging your schedule to accommodate this? It seems like she should be trying to figure out how to make sure the kids are cared for, not you. If you are separated, she should be ASKING you if you can watch them extra, not TELLING you that you need to.

You're right Kaizen and to be fair to her, when she approached me and said, "I have the opportunity to do a little traveling in the next few months so I wanted to talk to you to see if you would be able handle the kids' schedule while I'm gone." Then later in the evening, after I had calmed down, I approached her again to tell her that I have a bit of a work conflict on the first day that she's scheduled but that I should be able to rearrange some things to make it work. Her follow up was, "Ok, well I'll wait for you to confirm that you're able to make the arrangements before I book my flight."

This morning she approached me and said, "I never said thank you for agreeing to make the arrangements to cover the childcare while I'm away in Florida, so thank you." I said, "You're welcome."

But she FIRED you. Why would you volunteer to take off work so she can go party in Florida? Shes an adult - she should be the one figuring out those kinds of childcare arrangements.

Good point. And maybe it's something I should bring up. It's a subtle way of her crossing a boundary that would never get crossed if the situation were reversed. Like Sandi2 says, the selfishness of the WW trumps everything else. She will use every opportunity to please herself because she feels like she deserves it.

I don't know you guys. I'm so close to the breaking point here. I seem to be flip-flopping on how to approach all of this on a minute by minute basis. My head hurts and I really need to find a way to stop thinking about it for a while.

We'll see what tomorrow brings.

[sandi2]

I think a perfect marriage has room for each spouse to build friendships and have independent adventures.

Friendships and adventures with the opposite sex? You would have no problem seeing your husband go away for a week to be with some other woman, and is offended if you should ask any questions?

All you have to do is look around newcomer threads and see how that works out for marriages! This line of thinking across society today is why men have this idea they can't say anything to the W giving another man more time & attention than she's giving her H and kids.

I agree that women need friendships and time spent with other women. To have private/secret friendships with the opposite sex is inappropriate and an invitation for infidelity. The W has no business going away on some adventure with another man. (And the same applies to husbands).

[010207]

Sandi is spot on! For the most part, if you're in a relationship, you should not have close relationships with the opposite sex IMHO. At least not ones that don't firmly include your partner. Seriously asking for trouble. Good call, Sandi

[Vapo]

The best rule is if you would be ashamed to show your spouse what you are typing or if you would chose your spouse to not come with, then you are probably doing something off bounds...

[Rose888]

I think a perfect marriage has room for each spouse to build friendships and have independent adventures.

Friendships and adventures with the opposite sex? You would have no problem seeing your husband go away for a week to be with some other woman, and is offended if you should ask any questions?

All you have to do is look around newcomer threads and see how that works out for marriages! This line of thinking across society today is why men have this idea they can't say anything to the W giving another man more time & attention than she's giving her H and kids.

I agree that women need friendships and time spent with other women. To have private/secret friendships with the opposite sex is inappropriate and an invitation for infidelity. The W has no business going away on some adventure with another man. (And the same applies to husbands).

Hold on. The statement I was responding to said nothing about the opposite sex. It said in an ideal marriage, the wife would have invited Chris to go on her girls' weekend.

Now, whether we think Chris's wife is telling the truth about it being a girls' weekend is another thing entirely.

Would I have a problem with my husband going on a 1-1 trip with a woman who wasn't a close relative? Yes. Do I have an issue with him traveling solo, or going on a retreat with a mixture of men and women, or traveling with one or more male friends? No.

Do I think in an ideal marriage, he would imvite me in all of those trips? No.