Try Not to Think Too Far Ahead

[Kyh]

Thank you Job, I will try to handle her projection that way. Stepping back and asking why she feels the way she does. It won't hold water. I'm nothing like her parents and she's projecting both of them onto me.

The last few days she has been sending me short friendly texts. Then last night when she called to talk to the kids she sounded terrible. IDK if is was tired or sad or what, she said she was tired and couldn't stay when she talked to them but it wasn't even 9 yet. She just called to talk to me about S at school. A friend of his from another class was having a meltdown and S calmed him down and made things better for him:) I have such great kids!

She talked a little then told me she was leaving town again this weekend, taking time off from her new job. It kind of sent me spinning. She leaves town any time she doesn't have the kids and stays away as long as possible driving late or leaving in the early morning hours to come back so of course it makes me wonder if she is seeing OM again. Then again maybe she is just running. I came so close to asking but got off the phone before I reacted. I really wanted to ask her and IDK if I should. I'm thinking the answer here is no but it eats me up not knowing. Should I? I've never been controlling, jealous, etc. and I never had trouble with her going out w/friends, or momcations but I trusted her. Now I literally can't trust her to go to the grocery store or pay a parking ticket. I am tempted to ask because if she is she would no longer be welcome into my home and IDT I would being friendly to her like now. It's a boundary and she's broke it once without consequence so why not again? I was also told by the guardian attorney when they broke it off that he agreed to go to classes about starting/blending a family. What a great way to start a relationship (or keep in her pants), lol, and how insulting to me and the kids; however, it shows how wacky she is. I definitely have some pent up anger.

Right now she stops over, sees the dogs (which she called cats the other night, and no it wasn't a joke, she's out of it), knows she can count on me for certain things, and "thinks we can be good friends." I think this takes the guilt off her. Maybe she needs the gift that keeps on giving.

I realize that I'm spinning over something that IDK if is even happening so that is why I got off the phone but this just eats at me. I manage to bury it for awhile but it always manages to come out from time to time.

[ccgrrl]

I'm not expert (obviously, if you've read my thread) but I agree, Kyh - that "let's be friends" thing is to take the guilt off. My husband and I actually have been best friends since we got together in 1989. Now after BD, he regularly reassures me that he still thinks of me as his "best friend," even though he's putting me through more emotional pain than I've ever felt in my life and doesn't share anything with me, saving it all for his "platonic" OW.

I also have a lot of anger brimming beneath the surface. I seem to be in that stage of grief/LBS that is dominated by anger, which makes it hard to do the detachment thing and also makes you more prone to the crazymaking your MLCer puts into your brain!

Use your GAL strategy to take the focus off of what she's thinking and put it on something you can actually get some satisfaction from.

[Kyh]

Hi cc, you're right about the anger and crazymaking it puts in your brain. I let it get to me yesterday but thankfully I was able to let it go. I need to keep being friendly even though it's not easy.

Rereading my last post I feel like I took a few steps back. I'm glad I didn't react because it was all me.

W took the kids to go eat tonight (we agreed to have a mid-week night for her on my weeks since I have ever Saturday). Afterwards she came over and we ended up hanging out for an hour or two. I saw some of her old self, it was nice. She told me a lot about her work. Then she told me if it was snowing tomorrow she wasn't leaving. I listened and realized if she is telling the truth she may be trying to go back to a different place and time. She is going back to where we lived in grad school where step in laws are. It was a happy time and place for us. She told me she is hanging out with a friend from then. This friend, w, and our friend who was killed were all good friends who worked together and always hung out before we moved. W is reconnecting with her. She also arranged a play date with our late friend's son while she had the kids there at Christmas. Interesting because her son's dad is a jerk and w and I did not care for him. During our conversation she told me she missed living there. This isn't the first time she has said that, the last time she mentioned it I told her I missed living there too and she told me if I ever found a job there she would like move back. Not indicating together though.

[Kyh]

Sorry for this post ahead of time but I'm journaling/venting to keep myself from texting w.

I think my initial thoughts were correct. W couldn't even bother to call the kids this weekend. She texted this morning to ask if she could call this afternoon and made a point to tell me she was out with her friend last night and that's why she missed calling the kids. I missed her call this afternoon and called back 20 minutes later, no answer so I apologized in a text and told her to call them anytime. Nothing. Then I let her know a hour before bed and at bedtime and nothing. I want to truth dart her and tell her she obviously has someone more important than the kids but haven't. I know if it was her friend or step mil she was with she wouldn't have a problem finding time to call. I know tomorrow she'll tell me her phone was dead. So frustrating. I'm hurt but I also feel bad for the kids, and w as well. I can't imagine not calling, Idt I've ever missed a night. I want to say something so bad, she's going to come back tomorrow, pretend to be super mom, and come over here while I feel like a fool. Then again I'm letting her make me crazy, maybe I am, maybe she's not lying, but my instincts have been on since I first got the bad feeling about Om. It just makes the most sense.

I did try to get out and keep my mind off things this weekend. Took the kids to hockey games Friday and Saturday nights and to a bday party Saturday afternoon. Today we watched a movie, spent all afternoon putting a model roller coaster together then hung out until bedtime.

Hope everyone had a good weekend and gas a great week.

[roist]

I am glad you journalled here instead of sending those texts. My following comments are based only on your last few postings and as such I may have missed something.

We often get angry or frustrated or resentful when someone does not act as we EXPECTED. Think about whether that applies here and if those expectations are realist in current situation.

For example she has no obligation to phone kids. Why does that bother you so much? I accept contact with kids is important for them but not absolutely necessary for a few days. So why does this affect you so much? What is your EXPECTATION?

It is tough. I am just trying to help you change your thinking and hopefully stop the spinning.

Technically w is free to do what she wants with whoever she wants. All say in that is out of your control. Many vets say to assume the worst. Believe there is OM. That will stop you wondering or stressing in uncertainty.
What can you do to reduce how that affects you?

On a separate note, I don't see why you apologised. In this case based on what I read it was unnecessary and did you no favours. Apologising repeatedly or unnecessarily come across as weak, which is never attractive.

On a last note, don't let how she acts determine how you react.of course respect your boundaries, but you can be calm and friendlywhwther she deserves it or not. You be who you want to be.

Best wishes

[HaWho]

I ditto Roist. She is allowed to be unreliable in calling her kids if she so chooses. That is all on her.

However, when she then provides all the excuses of why she didn't call, I wouldn't validate any of that. In fact, I would face her and listen (with no angry body language) but say absolutely nothing. Obviously, if there's a will there's a way. It is not your responsibility to make her feel better about that. Usually silence speaks volumes.

Nice job being so patient though!

[Kyh]

Thank you Roist and Hawho.

I guess the short answer to most of your questions is I have expectations when I know I shouldn't. I expect things from someone I used to know that is gone. I haven't let go and that is why it affects me. I see bad decisions and I expect better because w used to have a good head on her shoulders. I expect better from her as a mother. I know I need to work on no expectations.

I don't think much about my apology, it was a simple sorry I missed your call.... But I will keep this thought. Next time it will be I messed your call.

I got woke up by a text at 5 this morning. She said sorry she didn't call she was talking to her mom about her sister, making it sound like something was really wrong. I didn't reply. She texted then called just before 8 to see if she could talk to the kids. I waited until I got to work and let her know they wanted to go to work with me and she could call whenever.

She sent some friendly texts after work about coming to get the kids. She was here a little bit and I was nice and didn't say anything except normal conversation. I did ask how her sister was, she didn't say much and said it wasn't much of anything. I dropped it and didn't say anything else. Just before she was going to leave she got a text from her old boss about looking at the pups and asked if it was okay. I think I kept things comfortable and friendly even though she was the one w confided in at the beginning of the crisis and I don't think she helped our sitch one bit.

W was very quiet for awhile after they left but I stayed friendly and we ended up having dinner and a glass of wine before she left.

I will try to be more patient, I don't feel I am but at least I know enough not to act. I need to improve on this.

Thank you again!

[Kyh]

It's been awhile so I thought I'd journal tonight.

The kids were sick again, one right after the other. I have to think all this stress has their immune systems weakened too. We just can't get healthy, it's crazy. All better not though. W asked me to bring a couple things to her apartment when D was sick and said she'd meet me outside. Right before I got there she texted saying I could come in if I wanted. I texted from my car when I got there and she came out. Since then she has made a few comments about me not coming in to see her place.

I had D at my office when she was sick during W's week and I took her out to W's work at the end of the day. When I was there W was telling me how busy she was and what a mess her desk was and wanted to show me. I've been validating her work but slipped as soon as I went in because there was a pack of cigarettes laying on it. I instinctively brought it up and she denied it and told me they were her boss's and she kept them because she was hiding it. I know I shouldn't have said anything but why does she care enough to lie about it?

The week before the last W was over Friday. I told her I was going to take the kids to the movies and she was welcome to come along. She said she would like to but was hurting so bad she didn't think she could and suggested we rent a movie at home. She came over Sunday evening we had dinner and a nice movie night.

Last week I had to leave town. W stayed at my house with the kids all week. She had people over two nights I was gone to look at puppies and had arranged for two ladies and kids to come over Friday afternoon when school was out.

Friday is a day off for her and she texted me in the morning because the batteries in the thermostat died and the house was freezing. I had to suggest several things for her to take batteries out of because she couldn't find any. It was strange she couldn't look around and find something herself. After she texted a bunch. I didn't respond right away at first and she got an attitude. I told her I wasn't ignoring her but couldn't text back right away. She texted me all morning, very friendly and joking.

I got back right before school got out so I was here for everyone coming over. It wasn't awkward (I talk to them picking kids up from school, bday parties, etc.) but have to wonder what they think of the situation. They both know W tried to move away w/kids this summer. After they left W stayed until almost bedtime and we had a few glasses of wine and takeout. We talked the whole time she was here. At one point she said "you're going to be mad at me" and when I asked why she told me MLC friend bought them front row/meet and greet concert tickets. I asked why would I be mad and she said "I figured you'd be jealous since you've never seen them in concert." I just said yeah, it sounds cool so I wasn't poo pooing her. So strange, I will go to concerts sometimes but haven't been in ages (I don't like crowds)and this was a complaint at BD. Before leaving she suggested the kids stay with me since I was gone all week even though it was her week and they are with me Saturdays. She also told me she went to the Dr. and started a birth control/hormone that will hopefully help her with her problem. I was happy to hear that, she is in debilitating pain a quarter of her life and I'm quite certain it's part of her depression. I validated her finally doing something about it and she started talking about being old again. Ugh...

W keeps making comments about not having this or that or money. I don't validate, just listen. It's her choice, she's running all over the place taking trips, new clothes, etc.

I noticed a few things from while she was here over the week. She slept in my bed instead of the couch but I think she slept on top of the covers. I could also tell that she went through some of my things. Why would she care to snoop around?

Oh, and another weird one. Almost every time she is over she shows me facebook pics of her old boss (body builder) who posts nearly naked pics of herself. IDK why, I told her she is way past the point of being attractively fit and W agreed but still has to show me all of the time for some reason.

Saturday she came over and was very cold. She had texted just before and seemed okay but pretty much ignored me while she was here. She was on her phone/facebook most of the time. Didn't even look at the pups. I had just done D's nails and I did sit a lighter I found on the deck on the counter but didn't say a word about it. I noticed she pocketed it before leaving. Maybe one of those things made her mad, otherwise IDK why she acted that way.

D asked to do a cheerleading afterschool camp this week and before leaving I told D to be sure to wear sneakers Monday. W turned to me and said "Do you think I'm f'ing stupid?" I was taken back but just told her I wasn't talking to you and of course I don't think your stupid, I was just having a conversation with D. I see more projection of her parents on me with that comment. She used to tell me they would tell her she was stupid as a child, so sad.

Well enough about W, lol. I know my post above focuses on her but I'm still working on getting my expectations to zero while not giving up. It's hard not to notice all these things with so much contact. Trying to take a step back and see things for what they are instead of getting caught up in things.

[Gordie]

Kyh,

Thanks for your advice. I've been reading your threads and learning from your situation. A few comments/observations/questions:

1. You were under the same roof for a while after BD before she moved out; was it better or worse for your relationship and children after you separated?

2. It seems like you have a lot of contact/interaction with your W (texts, phone calls, talking at home, family outings) given that you are both involved with your kids on an almost daily basis, correct? How is this helping you achieve your goals?

3. It seems like you have very strong suspicions about your W meeting up with OM, but it seems like you have a lot of self control in not asking questions. This seems like a good DB approach (I'm doing the same thing), but curious to know why did you choose this approach?

4. Your W seems to cycle from being icy cold to being relatively normal/friendly and you have detached from those cycles pretty well; a while ago you were still doing massages, etc., do you still have physical contact/affection (hugs, kisses)?

5. It seems like you are slowly in the divorce process, but you're not yet officially divorced, correct? When you are officially divorced, how do you expect it change your current dynamic (or perhaps not at all)?

[Kyh]

Gordie, I'm glad you could get something from my posts. IDK if I'm doing things right but I'm trying to do my best.

1. You were under the same roof for a while after BD before she moved out; was it better or worse for your relationship and children after you separated?

I think things have been better but not until I got a grip on myself (IC helped me a lot). No more walking on eggshells. It didn't matter what I did or said, she would spin it to make me fail in her eyes or pull strings to make me dance to justify herself. In hindsight I think her leaving allowed me to detach more than when she was in the house with her crazy antics.

We had very little contact most of the summer. She was just awful. That really didn't change until I got custody. She was getting her way with everything bullying her way around until that point. I think it was a bit of a wakeup call. She didn't start getting better until after I agreed to shared custody if he moved back to where we live.

This was awful for the kids, I noticed a regression w/S's ASD and both kids became very clingy and were seeking attention. S would tell me about nightmares about moving and losing his things. S told me he was happy to come back and was afraid he would have to go to a new school. They are getting better with everything but it's still hard on them. OTOH it had to be hard for them in the house too. I would hate for them to think that is how a H and W live together.


2. It seems like you have a lot of contact/interaction with your W (texts, phone calls, talking at home, family outings) given that you are both involved with your kids on an almost daily basis, correct? How is this helping you achieve your goals?

Yes, we now have a lot of interaction. I couldn't do it without learning about MLC, depression, projection, etc. It certainly makes it harder to detach and have no expectations though. As far as helping to achieve goals, I think it helps with co-parenting. It also keeps her from villainizing me. I was told that couples that reconcile often start as friends; however, that brings me back to no expectations.


3. It seems like you have very strong suspicions about your W meeting up with OM, but it seems like you have a lot of self control in not asking questions. This seems like a good DB approach (I'm doing the same thing), but curious to know why did you choose this approach?

I was given this advice early on from Cali and probably others too. I was so irate when I first found out it was all I could do from showing up at OMs office but I knew that would probably land me in jail. I think the confrontation, etc. also adds to the excitement for the adulterers. I made it clear I was not okay with it though. I listen to a podcast that has helped me a lot too. A few of the points I picked up from it are that often the cheater gets an actual high from what they are doing, similar to cocaine. Another point he talks about is As being like rocket fuel, they burn hot and fast but not for long. He also says not to confront the OP unless you can be calm. I found his number and had it on my desk for months. I could never even pick up a phone without getting worked up. I finally tossed it and let it go, I was torturing myself. He's a scum bag, IDT there would be much to gain by confronting him and when I confronted W in the beginning it drove her towards him because she's out of it.


4. Your W seems to cycle from being icy cold to being relatively normal/friendly and you have detached from those cycles pretty well; a while ago you were still doing massages, etc., do you still have physical contact/affection (hugs, kisses)?

No, none at all. I did give her massages those few times but then she got really cold. I probably shouldn't have, she may have thought of it as a temp check, who knows. Before MLC I used to rub her almost daily because she was always in pain.

Certainly no hugs or kissing. IDK if I could even kiss her right now, it would be something I would have to work on IF things ever get back to that point. She wrecked me, the last time I tried to kiss her about the time I think the PA started she made it so awful and awkward it scarred me for life. The closest thing to contact we've had in months was her bumping my hand a couple times handing me something and standing close enough to bump arms showing me pictures on her phone. This is actually a huge step from where we were when I had cooties.



5. It seems like you are slowly in the divorce process, but you're not yet officially divorced, correct? When you are officially divorced, how do you expect it change your current dynamic (or perhaps not at all)?

Yes, I was served papers last spring. She was pressing for it to get done before the holidays. She was getting mad at me for anything and running to her attorney. There has been no talk about it recently. I'm just letting things be. IDK how it will change the dynamic. I deal with a lot of this day to day and will have to see how things play out at that time. I think she may see it as necessary as she tries to keep running from looking inward.

I hope this helps, I may think of something else to add later. It's late now.