Working on a Trial Separation Agreement with MLC H

[SBJ]

I feel like there are two things I need to deal with: 1 - his mlc and how to proceed in our separation arrangements and 2 - my own ambivalence about the relationship. I just don't have any respect for someone who walks about of a 23 year marriage with children without first doing the work to fix our relationship. I can't get past that... maybe that will change, maybe he will realize this, or maybe I will see past in somehow, but right now I feel like an idiot hanging onto a relationship that, according to him, has been a sinking ship for a decade!

I agree with you about the respect factor...how can someone just leave after such a long and happy relationship. If you haven't read the thread on here that deals with the MLC script it is time you did.

This "crisis" has them seeing things differently and also has them re-inventing things about your M and relationship that either never happened or didn't happen the way they see it. We have a joke in our family when the kids remember something from their early childhood differently than it actually happened. We call them "false memories". They, my kids, do remember the event, but were really too young to remember it totally. I think the same thing happens to the MLC'r. They were with us thru the entire relationship, but because of this crisis, they are seeing things the way they want to see them...not the way they actually happened.

My W said similar things about us...at first it was, "we haven't been happy for a year, then it was years, then it was a decade, then it was since my oldest was born...". It is a total confusion on their part. You know what you two have had together. You are the rock of your family. You are the only one fighting for your family. Let your kids know that, mom was there holding our family together. They will remember that. They are your number 1 priority right now. He has to figure out his.

[ccgrrl]

Well things are looking worse and worse.

We had a conversation tonight about how to proceed with the separation. I've been trying not to have any conversations with him about our R at all because I feel they are unproductive and they make me very anxious.

My H is a passive-aggressive type and so there have been many years of him supposedly compromising but then resenting me for him not getting his way - this could be from anything - major decisions or minor. Anyway, we both recognize this unhealthy pattern and I feel equipped to work on that, but he does not.

Here's the big struggle right now... He is not behaving in a crazy way or doing monster behaviors or anything like that. He is coldly and calmly telling me he does not want to wait 6 months in this trial separation, he wants to get divorced tomorrow if possible. When I asked him if he's ever even read up on divorce and what it does to people, to children, etc., he stared at me blankly and said no. He just knows he's unhappy and he feels he wants to end the M, period. He gets very frustrated when I tell him I don't think he's being rational or thinking about his kids and especially when I tell him I don't agree that the M has to end, it just has to change. Then he says I'm telling him his feelings are wrong, so I validate and say his feelings are not wrong and that I'm sure he does really feel like he wants the M to end right now, but that 6 months gives us time and space away from each other to work through our feelings and see what's what.

I end up looking like the crazy one because he won't even concede that divorce is going to be hard on everyone. He won't concede that it's even possible to change his mind or that he will feel different with time and space. He won't concede that it is better to act more slowly on major decisions. In fact, this whole conversation began with him telling me how the separation is for me and the kids and not for him at all - as though I asked for this!!! He follows it all up by asking whether or not we (he really) can date.

By the end of the conversation, we agreed that him leaving is for him, not for his family at all, but that the 6 month period is for me and the kids so we can process and be careful about how we decide to proceed and see how it feels to be separate. He only agreed begrudgingly and I know it's going to be one of these passive-aggressive things where he makes sure NOT to think about things and get a clear head because it was my idea.

I feel completely defeated today. He really seems so dead certain... I'm starting to question whether the 6 months will do anything at all since he's so close-minded and stubborn. Who is this man? Not the person I married.

I also feel like a doormat. I feel like I should be throwing him out because no matter what, when he tells this story it will be told that way - that I pushed him out of his own house. I can see he's framing it that way when he talks to me.

I really find it difficult to believe that anyone this sure of wanting divorce can turn around and see the light.

Enough about him....how do I explain this to S13 and S6 in a way that is honest, age-appropriate, and somehow without making them feel hurt by the suddenness of it all?

[Kyh]

I don't know if anyone on the board has done the in-house AND the physical separation and can tell me if they found any relief in their spouse leaving the house for a time? Anyone?

Hi ccgrll, I've been reading through your posts tonight and I'm sorry.

As other have said the energy definitely changes. All our situations are different but yet so similar. For me, after the initial shock of W being out of the house (she left when I was gone) it was somewhat of a relief. A relief from the new awful person she had become but I still missed/miss the old her. No more walking on eggshells or pins and needles and no more of her teenage-like messes/behavior. I was basically a full-time single dad in the house to my kids plus I had a BASH teenager that was W. For me the triggers for different feelings fade more and more as time goes by but sometimes make unexpected appearances.

She still comes here sometimes and the mood varies. I'm working on not letting it affect me but I'd be lying if I said it didn't. Sometimes I like having her over here and other times I can't wait for her to leave. If she's here without me I know where she's been, it's a mess and the lights are on lol.

Reading your posts I see some similarities with my sitch. My w talked about finding her own place but how she couldn't because of money. It was part of her fantasy and she eventually figured out how to do it. And the talk about the sinking ship is right of the MLC playbook, remember to not believe half of what they say (e.g. my W told me she took me on as a project and she never loved me, she realized her project was a failure and she was done, period. I said like a bad 90s movie and she said yes, lol. We only dated 7 years before we got married so I know its a crock).

I hope the therapy works for you, it's positive that he even agreed to it, just make sure its worth while for you and your M. Remember to focus on yourself and kids, they will be needing you for stability. Take care and keep posting.

[Kyh]

Hi again, I was writing before your lost post came up. I'm sorry to say this and hope I'm wrong but in my case W wanting an immediate D and no working on anything was because OP was already in the picture. W also told me how she did research and how kids were resilient and would be just fine!! She also wanted to be the victim to justify it in her head.

I wish I had some good advice about talking to the kids mine are 8 and 6 (7 and 5 at BD time) and it was hard. Although I don't have good advice be sure to be their rock. They know a lot more than we think and will sense who the sane one is and rely on you for their stability.

[job]

cc,
One of the first things that you need to do is stop discussing divorce w/him. He's told you that he doesn't want to wait six months to end the marriage, so back up, leave him alone on this issue. You can't convince him to change his mind about it and the more you try to, the more determined he will be to go for it. As for the 6 month timeframe...anything can happen, but right now, I would be preparing for the worse and hoping for the best. Now is the time to get your ducks in a row about your finances, credit cards, etc., because he very well may just spend quite a bit of money and become very stingy w/time and money for you and the children.

As for the anger/monster behaviors, your h is in the early stages of MLC and those emotional outbursts/behavior may come out to play if you push him about the divorce or expect him to act a certain way. Not all people act like monsters, but some of them will just to get their point across. My xh was passive aggressive and went from an easy going, pleasant man to a complete lunatic who acted out very badly throughout most of his crisis. I'm not saying yours will do that, but if he starts acting that way, step back and just leave him alone.

I may be wrong, but I do think that there is someone waiting in the wings. It could be an EA that he has been thinking about and wants to take the relationship to the next level. The OP may not want to do this, but generally the OP is there stroking their egos and listening to their tales of sorrow (even when they aren't true).

Bottom line, no more discussions about divorce/relationship. Did you notice how his leaving is now for him and not the family? Well...that's MLC for you...it's all about him and not about you or the family. He's going to be selfish, self-centered and an emotional mess as he travels the yellow brick road.

I would tell your children that there father needs some time to himself to work on some personal issues. Reassure them that you will continue to be there for them. You don't need to go into great length about what is going on at this time because you don't know where your relationship is headed.

Keep the focus on you and your children.

[Altair]

cc,
times 100 what Job said (of course). Also I'm going to cut you a break and tell you right now Job is a woman (it took some of us many moons to figure that one out).
So yeah, right now, what I see:

He will probably pick fights and press your buttons and then say see, this is why I want to leave, look how horrible you are. This is where you need your inner strength to not fall into old traps. In fact, this could relate to your GALs- my GALs were to find ways to change my mindset, could be meditation, yoga, massage, etc.

Right now you can't win. Even if you're nice, fault will be found with that ("see, I knew you didn't care") and so on. Don't fall into any trap, and be friendly. No R talks.

The purpose of this is you will see, over time, that this is his MLC-- not yours, not your fault, not the kids fault. In separating from his spiraling MLC, it becomes his problem. I see this as a good step 1 for you.

[ccgrrl]

Once again, thank you everyone for really valuable insights. I know this is a place where everyone gets it and everyone knows exactly what I am going through and that has been very valuable as I live in a semi-rural area where there are no live support groups relating to divorce, etc.

Job - I am very sure you are right. As I mentioned earlier, there is an EA (which he does not consider an A at all) and he wants to be with her romantically. In fact, he really wants me to give him permission to do that. All I've really said about it when he's asked is that I can't stop him, but I don't see how that is going to help us heal our wounds and move on if that's what he wants us to do. Although he has said she told me she's uncomfortable being with a married man, I know he will use whatever charms he has left to get her to think of "separated" as not married.

I told him I do not want to discuss our R outside of MC (if we continue that) and that other than the logistics of finances and children, I don't want to engage in conversations with him during the separation until we really have something to talk about. He gave no response, so he'll probably bring it up again... it is always him bringing it up.

Here's another interesting thing.. he's been very keen on my getting an IC. That's fine, I think I need one and I am trying to line one up now, but it's interesting that he cares so much about whether or not I'm going to IC. I'm of two minds on this - either he sees it as a step to change my ways, showing that there could be something to work on or he's just wanting me to be in therapy because he feels guilty, knowing what he's done to my sense of security and stability in dropping this bomb on me.


RE: The Kids...
We're going to be setting up a schedule and I'm not sure if I'm thinking about this right. Normally, before BD, we split the childcare pretty much 50/50 and adjusted it whenever something came up for someone, but now that he's moving out of the house, that seems very disruptive to the kids. If I make it so he sees them less, then I feel like I'm taking on more than the fair share and I will not be able to work as much, which I need to do to support them. I also don't want him to get off scott-free and live in the illusion that he's meeting his share of responsibilities when I'm with them a disproportionate part of the time.

Should I try to keep things the way they are or am I right to see this as very disruptive of the kids' lives, having to live in two places equally?

[job]

You have to decide what is right for your children. This is something you can decide when you know where he's going to be moving to. However, if he's responsible for them 50/50, you may want to consider allowing them to go to his place on weekends/holidays when it's his turn to take care of them because that would make him accountable for overseeing them for a bit in his own environment.

Of course, he wants you to get an IC. Why? Because he figures that by seeing one, the IC may recommend a divorce after a few sessions and he wants to make sure you are more agreeable w/what he's doing. They do this quite often.

If he wants to be w/the ow, that's one him and yes, let the guilt get to him. No one in their right mind would give permission to a spouse to get romantically involved w/op in this type of situation. Oh, he really does want you to be okay w/what he's doing and he knows you aren't.

As for support groups...have you thought about your church? Some churches have groups for separated parents/divorced spouses, etc.

Bottom line, don't be too accommodating w/him. He can't grow up if you make things easy for him. He's got to learn from the "hard knocks" that life isn't a box of chocolates.

[SBJ]

CC, I'm sorry you are having a time of it. I am only a few months ahead of you on this MLC journey, but please know that if you just take it one day at a time, it does get easier to handle. Once you realize that this isn't about you, it becomes easier to detach. It has been easier for me to detach, but just recently.

Also, I noticed you posted something on another thread about him wanting to be friends...I think that is part of the script. They try to convince you that being friends is all you have ever been, and that way it takes the guilt away from them. Mine has said it, and several others have mentioned the friend-zone to me on here. It is a ploy. At some point they have to realize that you will be their spouse (and closest friend in the world), but you won't just be their friend.

Job is right on the support group, but my church doesn't have one...so part of my GAL activity is to create one. It is going well so far. I will keep everyone posted.

[ccgrrl]

I don't belong to a church - that's not something I have any interest in. I did just find a women's organization that offers some support, but the next group doesn't start up for a few months...

Thanks for your insights about IC, job and about "being friends", SBJ.

We're starting to move forward with some practical things for the separation. As I said, he is passive-agressive, so I need to be on the lookout for signs that he's agreeing to things he's going to later mess up and blame me for.

One of the key things that is troubling me is his fixation on selling our house. As I've mentioned before, we live paycheck-to-paycheck, and it's a small miracle that we can afford a house in this area at all. On top of that, we only have another 10 years or so on the mortgage, and the monthly payment is so incredibly low that you literally cannot find a studio apartment in this area for that amount. I've been firm that it is absolutely non-negotiable, but it keeps coming up.

This house is not great - it's okay, but that low monthly amount is the only thing that's making it possible for us to live here, especially now that we'll have a second household (at least temporarily) to pay for. If we did sell and split the proceeds, as he's suggesting, a new house - even one of significantly lower quality and smaller - at the current rate will cost more than double what we currently pay. None of this sinks in when I tell him about it. I tried reminding him that it is actually the only thing of value that we own and can pass to the kids or use for the college tuition - still won't budge on this idea.

If we end up divorced, I'm pretty sure the court can order us to sell the house, so I am really having a tremendous amount of anxiety.

I can't believe he's doing this to our family! I have my share of responsibility for our communication problems and power struggles, but I did not do anything to hurt him. I never looked at another man. I never squandered our money. I always supported him in going after his dreams, even when they were seriously unrealistic. I am loyal to a fault and I have always - even by his own admission - put this family first. I wish there was some way to get through to him, but all of his trusted advisors are people who have no clue about how we've been living, what it's like to be married 23 years, or what having responsibility for two children entails. It seems he has purposely set out to have advisors who think this way and never talks to successfully-married people or people with families.

I'm terrified that he is going to somehow force us into poverty with this ridiculous sell-the-house scheme. I just don't know how to detach from that reality and go on with GAL, etc. This is really serious and from what I can see, the laws do not protect me and my children...