MLC W and preparing for S or D in the new year

[Gordie]

Hey Gordie, I just finish reading through your threads and what a journey you have been on. I believe what you said is true on her wanting to have a journey and feel like a free person to do what she wants to do. That is something I am still struggling with even though she moved out a few months ago. But just remember decisions have consequences. And each person has to deal with there own consequences for their decisions. So unless they can realize that their fantasies are not all that they are made out to be in real life on their own the change will never happen.

Yes, but right now she is only experiencing the fantasy of her dreams and comparing it the reality of her M to me and she is choosing the fantasy. She says she may be making the biggest mistake of her life but that she has to do it. She acknowledges that she could stay M to me and that her life would be safe and predictable. But right now she wants to take some risks and see if her fantasies can become reality. She says she doesn't want to be on her death bed and regret not taking this chance now. She uses MLC language that time is running out. It hurts to get dumped for a fantasy but I recognize that fantasies are powerful and that is what she is choosing. I am heartbroken but I do love her and think the loving thing to do now is to step back. Yes, it may mean we willl never be together again, but this is her choice. I'm not the tough love guy and maybe that is a fatal flaw, but I am praying daily for guidance to do what is right. I think of the story of the Produgal Son and how the father let the son go and waited for him to come back.

[Gordie]

The grass is not greener on the other side like they think it is going to be,and you don't miss things until they are gone,and they run the risk of burning the bridges so they can't get back the lbs closes the door,

Agree. Fortunately, W definitely doesn't want to burn the bridge with me at this stage. If anything, she wants to keep me in her life as much as possible and it seems like for some this prevents the necessary growth to get to a place where one could reconcile.

[Seeker7]

I agree with you totally on that the fantasy is only in her head and it is a very powerful thing. Look at this way. I am sure you have fantasied about many different things in the past but as we all have come to find out is that it never turns out the way we play it in our heads. Trust me I was there and fantasized about something different and I thought if I did x that life was going to be better. No one could have told me different and would not have cared if they did because the state of mind I was in. I had to play it out for myself to realize that the grass is not greener on the other side. My decisions made it be one of the biggest mistakes of my life. Unfortunately I had to learn it the hard way just like most people have to do. Until the bubble pops it will always be there and if it does not pop they will always look back and say what if. Now on how you deal with it or handle it you are the only one who can make that decision. You can not focus on the future of what may be because no one knows the future so just focus on today and be the best person you can be.

[Gordie]

So W gave clarifying R comments about her recent wamth, affection, and ML to me while at the same time pushing for our S in the coming weeks. To her, H now listens to W and understands W and is helping W live the life W wants to live and is putting W's desires ahead of his own and that letting go of W and M is an act of love. This makes W feel closer to H. It confirms her feelings that we don't need to be M in order to have a love R.

Gordie's analysis:

*I can only change me. I like the changes i have made.
*W likes the changes I have made but they don't change her view of M.
*W thinks the traditional view of M is a bad deal for women.
*I will choose to continue to father my children every day.
*I will choose to continue loving my W (though not sure how that plays out on a day to day basis, particularly if/when she engages with POM and how I will outlast that storm).

[Zues126]

Rose, thank you will follow that advice. How to validate?

You are having second thoughts? How does that make you feel? That must be difficult and confusing?

Yes, I read the distance and pursue thread over in MLC but haven't read the book. Thank you for the reminder.

Hmm. That sounds patronizing to me.

I'd probably avoid asking questions.

"It sounds like you are doing a lot of thinking about this."

Just getting caught up on your sitch Gordie.

For me, when they make loaded statements that probe for a reaction, I just act like I didn't get their hint.

So in response to "I'm having doubts" I would just respond with something really nonchalant like "yeah, it can be confusing at times..." I may even add a one syllable chuckle at the beginning.

Point is that I'd make it clear that I heard her and validated her, but just as clear that I wasn't reading into it, wasn't emotionally reacting to it. If she has something to say it would have to be a heck of a lot more content and more direct. For a fragment temp check like this I'll answer in the same vague fashion and move on, letting her wonder about ME instead of the other way around.

[ForGump]

Your WW is partly right.

To her, H now:
- listens to W and
- understands W and
- is helping W live the life W wants to live and
- is putting W's desires ahead of his own and

Good

- that letting go of W is an act of love.

Respecting her independence is good.

- that letting go of M is an act of love.

No.

Here's the conversation I hear in my head:

"Honey, you have some things right but you are badly mistaken about this part. A divorce is not the solution. I cannot be with you emotionally and physically while you are sleeping with other men. That goes against all my values and feels wrong to every bone in my body. In fact, the closeness you feel with me right now -- if you knew that I was sleeping with other women, you would not feel that toward me. You would feel violated and skeptical that I care for you."

This makes W feel closer to H. It confirms her feelings that we don't need to be M in order to have a love R.

"Your feeling good about me being more supportive of you is right. But that is happening because I am committed and loyal to you. That is happening exactly because we are married and devoted to each other. If both of us are emotionally and physically carrying on with other people, those good feelings won't be there any more."

Like I said, it's the conversation I hear in my head. I doubt you should say anything so verbose to your wife.

[Gordie]

ForGump,

Thanks. Feeling so discouraged and that my efforts aren't working. I do need to think about what I say at this point but can't think straight.

That lump in my throats that doesn't go away is back. I need to go back and re read DR and re assess what I've been doing and how my tactics need to change. I still have a couple more weeks before we are going to physically separate so need to make the most of them.

Anger, sadness, confusion...how can this be actually happening? And my poor kids...

[Zues126]

So W gave clarifying R comments about her recent wamth, affection, and ML to me while at the same time pushing for our S in the coming weeks. To her, H now listens to W and understands W and is helping W live the life W wants to live and is putting W's desires ahead of his own and that letting go of W and M is an act of love. This makes W feel closer to H. It confirms her feelings that we don't need to be M in order to have a love R.

Feeling so discouraged and that my efforts aren't working...That lump in my throats that doesn't go away is back. I need to go back and re read DR and re assess what I've been doing and how my tactics need to change.

Gordie, you have to believe none of what you hear and half of what you see.

You are reading *WAY* too much into her words. You simply cannot. She is in a place where her emotions are all over the map, she is confused, conflicted, angry, excited, etc, etc. She is trying to create rationalizations for how she feels. These are NOT true underlying outlooks, they are at best a weak echo of what she's going through at one moment. They are the effect, not the cause. The worst thing you could do is to steer your ship by her brain farts.

I always tell people not to follow their feelings because their feelings are a horrible compass through this period, and not to follow their thoughts because their thoughts are just rationalizations of their feelings. You can only trust your beliefs after detaching from the rest. Well, she is following her feelings and thoughts, so don't follow her.

We also generally say "Speak in actions, not in words". You want to show change, change your behavior. Don't bother talking about something, that just makes it worse. Just live the change. Well, in your sitch the opposite is true. Don't bother listening to words, watch her behavior. And, like she might be afraid your changes won't last, give her time to see what's real versus what's a mood. All we know is she seems to be responding well to the changes you've made.

All in all, don't do a sudden switch because of a few sentences from her. Who knows, she might even be testing you to see if you were acting that way just to try to 'win her back', and is seeing if you change now that she told you she's not coming back. We don't know. Furthermore, you can't use whether or not she wants to R this week as a gauge as to whether what you're doing is working, because there isn't some change you can make that will control her back to the M.

So keep moving forward smoothly, no abrupt wild flailing around trying to land a desperation punch in the last round. Smooth. Consistent. Calm. Focus on detaching from the outcome, and being how you want to be because it's the right thing for you to do, not simply to try to pull levers with WAW. I think you need to make the last few weeks positive, you can always change the nature of your relationship after she's gone, but no reason to try to leave her with a bad taste in her mouth. It's ok for her to miss you. That's not the only goal, but it can't be a bad thing that she's saying this stuff.

[Seeker7]

I have to agree with Zues126. I found myself always trying to read into everything my W says. There were signs of hope and then other days there were signs of everything is done. I was just talking to someone in my support group last night about this. I see hope in things from her but it can be me just wanting to see what I want to see. So he suggested for me to take all those things that I see hope in and store them on a shelf in the back of my brain and just let them sit out of sight. Over time stuff will accumulate and vanish but what the most important thing is to continue to detach and work on yourself.

As I am continuing to detach more and more it has been able to give me a better view of what is going on and I am able to see more and more on a clear head. I can make better decisions on what I need to do for myself. Which at the moment is exactly what I need because now it is about me becoming the best version of myself. Trust me I know it is not an easy thing to be able to detach but it is a necessary one to be able to focus more on yourself. Just remember that becoming the best version of yourself will help create a person that she would be a fool to leave.

[ForGump]

Gordie--

I agree w/ these guys above.

Cry, vent, complain, despair in the forum. But at home, fake it. Put up a solid, strong, steady image.

Short of having one of our children die, this is the hardest thing we will ever do. Hurts like hell. But you can do it, man. Just lock your mind into doing the right thing. One foot in front of another. That's what I try to do.