Working on a Trial Separation Agreement with MLC H

[job]

You are right on the money.

[SBJ]

I am going to have to be sensitive to his needs while also not expecting him to meet any of my needs. I basically have another child in the house and I have to have my own adult life and address my own needs + those of the actual children in the house, and still be sensitive to his needs for space and autonomy. And yet, I can't for one minute think that this person—who had been my best friend since I was 18 y,o., (I'm 45 now)—will be willing or able to meet even one bit of my emotional needs.

Am I on the money with that?

I like how you see that...I know it is tough, but your is still in the house. Maybe that says something. Some of us are trying to fight this fight with them out of the house and also with them filing for D.

My W and I have been together for the same length of time and I cannot make sense of this thing either, but it is here nonetheless. I don't believe I will ever really know what she feels is or was missing, but I do know that we could make it work. The only problem is....it takes two to make a M work. That is what I have been struggling with. It's worth it to me to fight for our M...why would one see it as hopeless?

[HaWho]

Cc - you are receiving excellent advice from Job, who has been my guardian angel through all this.

Just wanted to touch on a few things, that might help. Make sure you are deleting your history off your computer and other devices so that your kids and h do not see what you post. Don't forget devices are synched.

Try not to mind read. You mentioned earlier that you feel by completing the separation contract you are showing him support. However, you have no idea how he will view it. He may view it as you giving him the thumbs up to have an affair or maybe he'll think you are edging him out.

As you are seeing their perception is skewed. When my h went down to his re-created dorm room he told me he was done with me and insisted I leave him alone. He said he didn't even want me walking the dog with him! Months later he told me it hurt him that I never came to sleep with him. I reminded him of all he had said and he answered "oh yeah, that's right." That skewed perception/memory had him convinced he was the victim when in reality, I merely was honoring his boundaries.

So, another thing that helped me tremendously was to learn to do nothing. Doing nothing IS doing something as he has to make his own choices. Don't give him easy outs. If you're reading my thread you'll see that my h had lots of ideas but he didn't happen to implement many of them. However, most MLCers cut and run.

Here's a big concept I wish I had mastered earlier: kill him with kindness. Be very polite and cordial. Treat him like a houseguest. They do push buttons hoping we'll toss them out so that they can live the life they want. However, do read up on boundaries as I am in no way saying appease him. (Like you I lived on eggshells for quite some time. It was so gradual until one day I looked around and saw how all consuming it was.)

From what I have seen the live-in MLCer recreates his/her childhood home. They use the spouse to work through those past issues. Some of them use OW, too. These are people who were stunted and will literally grow up again.

By the way, I grew up in MA as well! I am from the western part of the state but moved to the Boston area after college. I miss the woods!

Let me know if I can answer any questions for you.

[ccgrrl]

I’m having a hard time with the whole MC thing, as well as IC…
So here’s the lowdown on how this has been going. For about 6-8 weeks after BD this past October, H was pouring his heart out to me, often sobbing, really having trouble sleeping, etc. He told me each time he talked to me or a friend (he was referring specifically to a mutual friend of ours and a friend of his from childhood who lives thousands of miles away) he definitely felt better. Because he was so clearly depressed and I was concerned about his safety, I urged him to talk to someone and even helped him locate one our insurance covered. He refused for most of that early time and then started seeing the IC about 6 weeks in.

Gradually, since he started talking to the IC, he has also been spending more time with other “friends” whom I don’t know. As I said earlier, this includes at least one OW with whom he is having an EA, even though he doesn’t see it that way. Likewise, he has been talking less and less to me and not at all to our mutual friend. He seems to prefer talking to people who do not know me and have no intimate knowledge of our R.


I did get him to agree to MC and we have been twice. The first time was okay, we both felt it was a good fit. In between the first and second, I immediately began to see important patterns in our communication that were leading to most if not all of our R problems. I was very excited to get back to the next session. Unfortunately, the second time our appointment came right after a fight in which I let my jealousy about the OW show. That overshadowed the whole session and instead of discussing the breakthrough that I had been eager to talk about, we spent time talking about whether or not he was having an affair and how quickly he could divorce me because he is sick of dealing with me.

In order, I think, to make him feel like he wasn’t spinning in circles she told him he should go ahead and find out what the logistics are for getting divorced in Massachusetts because she wasn’t 100% sure and thought we had to live apart for a certain period. Well, he did his homework and MA is a no-fault state with no requirement to live apart before filing and also has no legal separation , only some sort of court order for support during a separation.

A few days after that session we started talking about this trial separation thing and I did actually put in writing (I gather that’s not what I’m supposed to have done, as I read through other threads) how I felt about the three options we have: divorce -not interested and it is unnecessary; stay together in-house separation - works only if we are working on our marriage because it’s very upsetting and confusing; and finally, trial separation of 6 months or so “to help us both see what’s happening much more clearly, and will ease our family into whatever changes are about to happen.” I put it that way because he kept saying in session that I was just in denial that our relationship is over and I wanted to be clear that what I need right now is the space to grieve the end of the old relationship and to allow each of us to figure out if our new lives will or will not be as a married couple.

The MC said she’d like to proceed by seeing us separately for the next 2 sessions and then bring us back into the room again together the 3rd week. I am scheduled to go first and our session is tomorrow. I am feeling like there is really no purpose in the counseling if it isn’t to work on the relationship and that can only happen when he is able to let go of his anger and hurt and resentment and start entertaining the possibility of a future that does not include divorce. Since I can’t make him do that and he’s busy printing out information to show her about how easily he can divorce me, what should I do? Is there any way she can help me? Should I just go to my own IC to vent about all of this and find my way, or has anyone found MC helpful at this point in the process?

Appointment is tomorrow (1/10) at 12:30 EST, so anything you can tell me before will be helpful. My heart is pounding out of my chest and I am utterly confused about how to proceed.

[AndrewP]

ccgrrl - One thing I've noticed from what others here have written is that there is wide variety in MC. Some of them are "pro-marriage" and will work with the couple to rebuild and heal. Others are looking at it from an individual health point of view and may even counsel a couple to split and "do what makes you happy".

Asking this counselor which way they lean may be the most important thing you say.

[SBJ]

So sorry you are having a hard time with the MC/IC thing...I don't have any advice on the subject, but can only say that I have been told that when things are still so new, counseling isn't necessarily the best thing. Both parties have to be in it for the right reasons for it to be successful.

In my case, we did the MC thing and my W used it more as a way of convincing herself that we should get a D. She has since followed suit and filed. Good luck to you.

[job]

Try to locate a "solution based" therapist. You don't want someone who encourages people to find out what the laws are about divorce. You want someone who is going to be there to listen and offer good, sound advice and help you understand what is going on and how to go about repairing not only the relationship, but you.

[ccgrrl]

Thanks, job. I actually chose her because she IS solution-based. I think what happened was after 50 minutes of both her and me trying to explain the idea of taking baby steps to get to where it really feels like change is happening, he kept saying "oh, so there's not choice but for me to stay miserable or jump in my car and drive away" (paraphrasing, of course). Every baby step that she offered or that I came up with, was not a big enough leap and he used our financial situation as the reason we can't separate. When she asked him to imagine that we had unlimited funds and he could do whatever, what was his plan - he said he had no idea and that he'd probably drift around forever, but all he needs to do right now is "get out of this," because he is suffering.

So she presented him with a step he could take without forcing me to take a step I'm not ready or willing to take (divorce). Unfortunately, she was wrong about the laws and thought he would find that we had to do a separation anyway, so why not start with a trial one...

[ccgrrl]

Thanks, AndrewP - I am going to ask her that.
I am not opposed to divorce after a couple has truly tried to work things through and just can't do it, but I do feel like a 27-year relationship deserves one attempt to save it.

I know there are a lot of posts about boundaries and ultimatums, etc. and people on the board seem to often ask the LBS what is the thing they just can't live with. For me, not being given the chance to rectify my mistakes, to even confess my own mistakes after 27 years and two children - half a lifetime together - that is unbearable. And there is a piece of me that feels like saying to my H - if he doesn't want me to contest the divorce (which will drag it out and make it horrible and expensive for everyone) then he needs to work on it with me. But then again, I know that can't work because he can't make himself want to work on it.
Thoughts?

[SBJ]

As a LBS that is truly wanting to work things out with my W I understand your feelings, but it truly takes two to make a M work and only one to get out. That is the reality that I am trying to work thru right now. Please know that you are not alone in all of this. There are many of us here that are trying to get thru the same trial you are right now.

Would giving him an ultimatum to work on the M really draw him towards you or push him further away?