I'm Back :(

[MoveFrwd]

How do you guys do it!? How do you not retaliate? I am so tempted to go see her family and explain what she is doing as well as her close friends. Some people say this is a good idea while others say it isn't. I do feel like it would at least put pressure on her to see that what she is doing is wrong.

What is your goal?

Does "retaliating" get you closer to it? If not, then it's pretty easy to choose what to do.

[Laowai]

How do you guys do it!? How do you not retaliate? I am so tempted to go see her family and explain what she is doing as well as her close friends. Some people say this is a good idea while others say it isn't. I do feel like it would at least put pressure on her to see that what she is doing is wrong.

One does it by making the choice to not retaliate...
Temptation is not a good feeling to follow in most cases...
Many here would say it is not a good idea because you are not in a good place or mental state to handle the blowback...
How has following your "feelings" been working out so far?

I beleive it is sandis tag line that says, it's not about doing what you "feel" works...it's about doing the work that gets the right results...
Perhaps you should sit still for a spell, listen up to the wisdom you are being provided here and go against your " instincts" to do what has been proven in the actions of those that have gone through this before you....
You share a lot about what she is doing...
What are you doing for yourself?

Yeh, I suppose this is probably the best course of action.

As to what I am doing for myself: I have made many physical changes, I am going to counseling every 2 weeks, reading lots of self help books, keeping the house spotless just the way that I like it.

Now, those are all of the things that I have been doing since BD. However, these past couple weeks I haven' done ANYTHING. Literally lay in my bed for days at a time. Not eating for days at a time. Sleeping either none for days at a time, or binge sleeping for a day. It is as if I am utterly paralyzed currently. The interesting thing is that I can't find a specific trigger that caused this change 2 weeks ago.

I will admit that I am doing WAYYYYYY too much intel gathering at this point....to the point that it is extremely unhealthy. I don't know why at this point I am still doing it to myself. I suppose I want to use it or something to get her to ADMIT the relationship with OM is wrong. To this day (even today) when she "defends" the R with OM it's "I told you that I spend time with him". Well, it's inappropriate, but it doesn't seem to matter to her; I truly feel like she doesn't think she's doing anything wrong at this point.

[Woke_Up]

Now, those are all of the things that I have been doing since BD. However, these past couple weeks I haven' done ANYTHING. Literally lay in my bed for days at a time. Not eating for days at a time. Sleeping either none for days at a time, or binge sleeping for a day. It is as if I am utterly paralyzed currently. The interesting thing is that I can't find a specific trigger that caused this change 2 weeks ago.

It doesn't matter what triggered it. Just stop it. Get yourself back. Do it now!!! I feel for you. A WW who won't admit wrongdoing or stop it eats away at your soul and you feel yourself drowning. The voices in your head will drive you insane. The paralysis is awful. But know this - you CAN do it. You WERE doing it. Get that back. It doesn't have to be all in one go. Just get out of that house. Run. Listen to music. Exercise. Even if you get an hour or 2 of peace in the day - it is a start, and you will get back your soul. It is yours and only yours. It is easy to believe it is someone elses to control, but it truly isn't.

I will admit that I am doing WAYYYYYY too much intel gathering at this point....to the point that it is extremely unhealthy. I don't know why at this point I am still doing it to myself. I suppose I want to use it or something to get her to ADMIT the relationship with OM is wrong. To this day (even today) when she "defends" the R with OM it's "I told you that I spend time with him". Well, it's inappropriate, but it doesn't seem to matter to her; I truly feel like she doesn't think she's doing anything wrong at this point.

This was me also. Even up to a few days ago. It doesn't help. You already know. She tells you. A WW who admits she is seeing or contacting OM will just rub it in your face and defend her actions. Every day I see her phone and don't look at it, I feel a victory for myself. The days I feel I don't need to know what they are saying, what they are planning, whether they are talking about me, whether they are talking about THEIR future together, whatever the hell it is, is a better day. Know this. It truly is a better day. You are a bigger person when you can do that. You are learning the rules of DBing. You will slip. I did. I still am in other respects (emotional detachment), but you can carry on. DOn't ever think about Why this is happening at this stage. There is no point in the why, there will be time for that in the future. At the moment it is as SH & Sandi say. Do what works.

However, one thing I have realised is that this applies to the self, not just the Wayward. Do what works for yourself, to keep you sane, to nourish your mind, body and soul.

Keep posting, keep listening, keep learning, keep trying. The posters on this forum have helped me so much in a few short weeks, even though I know I am doing things wrong and have tough times ahead. You will do things wrong and have tough times ahead. But you can and will get through them, because you can remember, as I am starting to remember, the person I used to be, and the person I want to be in the future. I can see that person now. I can start the journey to become that person and so can you.

[Laowai]

Thanks to everyone for your replies. WW is supposed to come over today to pick up one of the dogs and have lunch. I had thought about telling her that I am going to discontinue paying the cell phone and car insurance, as I feel like I'm being taken advantage of. I may wait just a little while longer though.

Question for you all: Do you think that when I do tell her this, that I should also tell her that I am going to see an attorney to get the legal financial/asset separation started? Right now everything is just informal, meaning that she could technically run up tons of marital debt that I would be responsible for if this goes to D. I really don't think she would as she is very debt averse, but you just never know. MY big concern with this, is that she may take this as me saying that I want a D which is definitely not the case at this point.

[Jug]

Definitely don't tell her about talking to an attorney for the reason you said. It's for your information, not to threaten.

[Steady9]

--I am not sure if this is enough of a sign to send the message of detachment... but if you want to stop paying to send a signal --then just say, I have decided to stop paying these expenses for you.... That is it.... do not say anything to do with you... "I feel like I am being taken advantage of" IMHO

Practice what you say in response to --Why?? Just say again, I decided to stop paying,,,, etc.

[LiM]

I had thought about telling her that I am going to discontinue paying the cell phone and car insurance, as I feel like I'm being taken advantage of. I may wait just a little while longer though.

Why wait? You ARE being taken advantage of and she'll keep doing it as long as you let her. And that will only prolong your limbo. Stand up for yourself. You don't have to be dramatic about it. Simply tell her, "We're separated, you're having and A and so I will no longer support you financially." End of story. You don't even have to be ugly about it. Its just a statement of a boundary that you are enforcing.

I do think you need to talk to an attorney about legal separation so that you fully understand everything. I would not say anything to her about it. While it is probably technically true that you would be on the hook financially for any debt she runs up right now, I don't think you would if in fact things came to a D. No reasonable judge is going to shackle you with debt that she ran up after you were S and while she was having an A. I would think the judge would stick the liability for that debt on her in the event of a D. However, I'm not a lawyer so you should definitely speak with one.

[Sotto]

I think that's good advice from LiM. My piece of advice would be - don't ever do anything (ie: tell her you are seeing a L) to get a reaction or try to 'snap' her out of the funk. Only do these things because they work for you, feel right for you, and so on.

I would agree you should see a L. And I wouldn't let her know you have seen one until/unless you want to move forward with something. At that point you can say to her - we need to draw up a S. Agreement. I'm using X lawyer and here are their details...

If you aren't ready to go for a formal agreement (I left that far longer than was sensible and suffered financially for a couple of years as a result) at least keep a close eye on financials to make sure spending stays sensible.

I'm glad you are seeing a counsellor. I think the holiday period is tough, and that may well be why you have been feeling so low. It's a new year now and a fresh start, so do begin making plans to improve your wellbeing and actively GAL for yourself.

Brighter days are around the corner I promise...

[ForGump]

Laowai--

I cannot help but feel all your deliberations are ... mere rearranging the deck chairs on the Titanic. Except your ship sank long ago, it's two thousand fathoms underwater. And you are just a ghost haunting its deck.

You are worried about cell phone bills and lunches and dogs and lawyers, while you live like a zombie, not eating, not sleeping. Everything you are doing revolves around your relationship to your wife. You are a suffocating, castrated presence to your wife. She doesn't want a husband like that! Your marriage is dead.

Dead.
Dead.
Dead.

You are asking us here about what you should do. Stop it. Stop all your calculations about what you should do.

Be, first. Be.

Stand in front of a mirror, and look at yourself for a long time. Who are you? What are you, aside from the husband of your wife? What principles do you stand for, other than undying loyalty to your wife? What is your character? What makes you fun? What makes you interesting? What makes you attractive?

Then think long and hard about who your wife is. What values, what character has she shown? What is her (F*****G) problem?

You are looking for solutions but you don't yet see your problem.

I'm sorry for the harsh words. We are all in pain here. It hurts like hell. I hope you wake up.

[Vapo]

Stop paying for her stuff. No need to make a grand proclamation or explanation. You could just text her.

W, I decided not to pay your cell bill any more. Period.

Why wait? She will not just snap out of it. And any longer you postponet it, you will just die a bit more inside.

You need to get yourself out in the world among people. Go hiking, find a hobby, take on square dancing. You need human interaction.

There really is no need to expose her to anyone. It will do no real good. Some people will feel bad for you, some will think that you must have done something awful to her, her friends will side with her, her family might agree with you, but will side with her (blood is thicker than water). It would be super cool if you had a good personal friend that you could confide in and help to get you over these turbulent times.

If you feel depressed, you should see your GP, perhaps go on the meds for a while. This is an extremely shitty situation we all got ourselves into and it will not be going away any time soon.

Do not wait, make a plan and start living for [censored]'s sake.

1. Terminate her phone plan and inform her of it.
2. Terminate her car insurance plan and inform her.
3. Lawyer up, change the locks on your house, but do check with lawyer first.
4. Go out, get some new clothes, new cologne, new haircut. You need to start feeling better about yourself.
5. Join a gym and start going regularly.
6. Force yourself to start going. 3 nights a week for starters would be great.
7. Hobbies, get some.
8. Dreams, surely you had some. You wanted to go to MAchu Pichu, well now is the perfect time. Start moving. Do not die in your body.
9. IC, keep it up, ask for advice about meds, tell IC about your unusual sleep patterns and eating patterns. IMO you are in the grips of depression and if left untreated you could suffer and there is really no need to.
10. Stop waiting for her to wake up.
11. Axe the snooping. IMO you do not want to give up her cell phone plan is because it gives you a way to track her (and snoop). You should stop it. SERIOUSLY...
12. REorganize the house and eliminate her presence. Store away pictures of her, bag her stuff.
13. You are a grown man, time to start to act like one. Grow a pair. You will not believe how good it feels to be reborn a new man. A MAN I SAID!
14. She will spew, water off a duck's back I say. She will call you names and justify her [censored] OM with your actions. Just walk away from her. She is toxic. Imagine her like she is a big ass nuclear reactor that is leaking radiation. You do not want to be anywhere near her.
15. Stop with lunches, coffees, dog crap and god know what else. Show her with YOUR actions not your words.
16. YOU CANNOT NICE HER BACK. NO, SHE WILL NOT WAKE THE [censored] UP AND COME RUNNING BACK IN YOUR ARMS LIKE IT IS SOME CHEESY CHICK FLICK.
17. You are not anywhere near being on her radar. You are a waling pay check. She found the lust and thrill of OM and you are out of the picture. OUT!
18. No, she does not need time to "find herself".
19. No, she will not be doing MC with you anytime soon.
20. Start living as if she is not coming back. For all intents and purposes she is dead to you.
21. Come here and vent if you need. We have all been where you are now. It is a dark place. But it does get better, it really does.

The most important thing is to get your ass in gear. And stop making excuses for you OR for her. The time for excuses is OVER.

You do not need to go through all my points and execute them in a single day or even a week (month). SEt a goal. Even if you just do one per week it is still a great success.

Sometimes I remember Charley Brown and Snoopy when CB says to Snoop: Someday we will all die.

And Snoopy replies: True, but on all the other days we will not...

Stay strong buddy...