Still lost, still confused (part 2)

[j20a00g]

It primarily is anger and fear. I think anyone who isn't on here to try and save their marriage at least in the beginning is not being truthful. Ofcourse working on myself and being the best I can be is the primary goal but, I have yet to meet anyone that is please or happy just competing in the olympics without them wanting in the back of their mind winning the gold.

Of course everyone comes here originally to save their marriage. Nobody thats single and looking for self improvement would go to a forum about divorce. That said, the things that are best for your marriage are also the best for you...in other words, the path towards self improvement is also the path which has the best chance to save your marriage.

It's deflating when someone who you have built a life with tells you after 18 years that you aren't good enough but this OM is. Do I know it's true? No. but it's true to her and she's the judge, jury, and executioner.

I completely agree. Nobody likes to be told that there is somebody 'better' out there. Maybe he is, maybe he isnt. Youre right - your opinion doesnt matter on this topic.

Vanilla is right about the "set free" comment. This has been over a year now. 8 months since being intimate (once all year), 7 months since kissing, 6 months since hugging anyone other than my D's. It's not easy. Not at all.

Nope. It isnt. So wat youre saying s that on the day of the divorce you are going to go out and start dating again? I understand. For me, I didnt wait until the official divorce; I think I started getting 'out there' about a month before it was finalized. I say to each their own on that - I feel it's more about timing and each person rather than whats reported to the government, but I can understand the other side.

Throughout our marriage, she has always been a teller. She gets loud and animated when she is angry. I no longer allow to be yelled at or cursed at over the phone. With regards to other boundaries, it's interesting how when someone doesn't want to be around you how boundaries aren't that difficult to enforce. Past boundaries were not being around when she would be texting OM during family time. But again, not an issue anymore.

You said this:
But at some point, you stop allowing someone to disrespect you and your boundaries.
So what boundaries are being disrespected? My question was why are you allowing your boundaries to be disrespected now? Your comment was that your divorce would end the disrespect.

I've tried the "treat everyone as I wish to be treated" and it sounds awesome! But again, when your best friend begins banging your wife. You lose some faith in humanity. Sorry if I sound bitter but, it's true. 2 people that got tons of respect, encouragement, support, etc (all things I wish from people) ended up pouncing on the opportunity. If you can't trust your spouse or your closest friend, who can you?

You dont have to apologize to me. But on the one hand, you want to be 'set free' to see other people and on the other hand, you've 'lost faith in humanity'. So you are itching to get ride back on that train but now with a bitter heart? Yes, people can be incredibly cruel. But in my mind, if you learn how to treat others as you should, they will respond in kind.

How does my view change on her post divorce from what it is now? Divorce may be just the legal side to some but it's far more to me. I'm not religious but I deeply believe that marriage is a bond that is treasured. Not disposable. Many things can tarnish or ding that bond but, divorce breaks it forever imo. It shows that someone gave up on the other. Permanently.

Thats a fine view. In my mind, the bond is broken at BD. The actual divorce proceedings are just paperwork. I believe just as strongly in the bond of marriage, but I dont believe the break is permanent - anything can happen at any time.

I'm not so sure that the statement about many people are here to make themselves better for their next relationship.....if that's truly the case then I'm not so sure the divorce busting model or website is the right place. I get the some parts of personal enrichment can cross over but, most of the technique and method is geared towards trying to save your marriage. There are far better resources for personal development. MWD is in the marriage saving business. Not the prep for your next relationship business.

As I said above, in my mind, the marriage is pretty much already over at BD. So there isnt anything to 'save'. The only thing we can really control is our words, thoughts, actions, reactions, emotions, etc. So that is where the energy should focus. As I said above, that type of self-discovery and self-improvement is exactly following the DB model. It's about getting a life....it's about doing the 180....its about setting personal goals and trying to achieve them. We all come here hoping to reconcile and Ive seen many who have. My hope is that those relationships come out stronger and more mature based on their time here.

All great points and insight. Thanks darkness for taking the time

[fightin]

Hey j2, how are you feeling today? Caught up on your sitch and I get the anger and fear and I think it is normal and okay to feel those, but just don't let them consume you.

I agree with darknes on " the marriage is pretty much already over at BD", but that doesn't make it any easier to work through the pain. It does, for me at least, help me remember that even if my W does find her way back to me we will be building some new all together, and hopefully something stronger and better than it was before, as 2 stronger and better individuals.

[j20a00g]

Feeling a bit better. Really am working on detaching. Zero contact today otherhan a text from her asking me to have the kids call. I didn't respond back but had the kids call. Onward!

Thx fightin...hugs to u

[fightin]

Hey that's a great way to handle it j2! Proud of you!

[Vanilla]

J2

Once again I present another voice.

At BD an M is not 'over', it is over when the LBS decides it is. When they are ready for new M with the old S or a new one.

When you let go when you move on, when you say done. That's when the old M is over.

The toolkit here is for developing yourself, becoming, concentrating on you, havintage boundaries.

You may find the old R, the old M is insufficient. You may find that as you grow become the best you that can be that your standards rocket, that your self esteem grows, that self belief is stratospheric.

That you become the LBS that walks away into the sunset a spouse only a fool would leave. And your ex is a very big fool.

And let me say this, is your WS happier? Do they have the love of their lives? Why is OP a better match?

The answer is they aren't, they are just new and shiny to the wayward, less likely to say 'no' to anything, less likely to criticise or more likely to say yes. Drag through the limmerance phase, when lurve with snookums bunny is glittery with new car smell.

The truth is the wayward isn't happier, just distracted more. Is the OP a better match, yes probably. A cheat is down market and a cheats mate is definitely one down on the LBS. No argument.

Let two down market wassock cheating entitled douches do their muscrat thing with fleas. I do not believe in MLC, nope I believe in bad behaviour, cheating and nasty wormy OP. Knickers don't accidentally fall off and alcohol is no excuse. I believe in gaslighting, lies, smoke, mirrors and cheating being a double life. MLC is not in the DSM, it isn't a personality disorder according to DSM V. It is nasty unpleasant and destructive selfish behaviour.

It's hurtful and painful for the LBS and the best thing that can be done is to be the best you can and invest in you. If the wayward you M wakes up to the loss in their lives make them work for it. You are a better catch, probably too good for the cheating spouse.

Is it likely that the wayward has worked hard on themselves before getting an OP? Not likely, they take themselves into their new R, the unvarnished wayward may be doing you a favour after all by showing you their true colours.

And if your S is merely a walkaway? By becoming the one only a fool would leave, by becoming the best you can be then there is every chance you can attract your walkaway. It takes time, effort and following the principles of DB to have the best chance.

I frankly do not belive in outing A deliberately as a strategy, it makes things worse often, I do not believe in lying though. Truth is truth and will out.

There is no need to unmask a wayward, the truth will out, scoropions sting, mad dogs bite, alcoholics drink. This shows in time, waywards behave wayward lying and gaslighting as they go. Hold your head up, this is their behaviour, it is despicable and awful to be part of. Distance. Be clear this is out of bounds for you.

I don't see this as angelic prophecy either, a means to grow, a blessed lesson. It's unplesant and thank you I would rather each persons spouse here had taken the brave way rather than crossing the rubicon. It hurts, and confuses and even worse some waywards toy with their spouse in order to benefit financially or emotionally.

So for me, the keys are to detach, use observer mode and let the truth be known. Always be prepared to walkaway. If you do walkaway, don't look back and know you have had the last say. If you stay and rebuild then that too is your decision.

The LBS is always the one who lets go of the old R and M.

I know this in my bones.

V

[hawker]

V,

That was a great post!! That is all.... :-)

[bsb]

V, I agree that is an awesome post!!

[j20a00g]

Well said. Thx v

[fightin]

V, once again a very insightful post. Thank you!

[ForGump]

Poetic, V. Like it.

Good point about MLC. It's not in DSM V but I think often MLC-ers have some type of lifelong issues that might be identified as something in DSM. Every MLC-er has some deep hollow black crater in their heart they've carried much through his/her life.