A stronger me for whatever the future holds

[PacLove]

Thanks - Sandi2 posted a pretty good response over in your ask Sandi thread....

Lately I've been tempted to join some online dating sites but I know that DR/DB advises against this. Why is that? If we are supposed to be truly acting as if we are "moving on" wouldn't this help? If W caught wind of this I know it would certainly send a sign to her (a few of her friends are on the sites so it would likely get back to her at some point)

[PacLove]

Wow what a change! But thought I'd share the good news for those out there in limbo land.

W opened up the R discussion this week asking what should we do... I'll spare most of the details out of respect for her, but the A is apparently over, she showed genuine remorse and honesty about what's been going on. The way she talked about the A is so textbook, it had run it's course, he wanted more she wasn't willing to, caught up in the excitement etc.

We are both not sure what is next, but the good news is we are "talking". I had actually came to the conclusion of either outcome about a month ago and was looking to move on..

We have a long road ahead whichever path we take. One comment I will share though - healthy boundaries are important but be careful they don't come off as being bitter. Two things she shared with me that hurt her the most in the past year were a feeling I was being bitter and a feeling of not being safe due to my snooping - that is apparently what drove her to move out and what scares her most about coming back.

[Jug]

That's positive but definitely be careful. I'm happy for you. Can you share any of your plans or boundaries?

[PacLove]

Yes carefulness is very much on my mind as trust is not there but changes in her behavior show me that it is likely over if not fizzling for sure.

One boundary that I think worked was when she was moving to her own place and I was insistent on D staying with her on her nights, I think that probably created a bit of a wake up call/reality check for her as it was around the same time she said she realised the A wouldn't last.

A boundary that probably didn't work so well was me being difficult about access to the family home before she had a permanent place. She felt that I was being a bit of a a$$ and not flexible.

I've seen a lot of threads on here debating the hard line vs. the kindness route and I really feel it's a mixture of both. We need to be hard about certain things but do it in a loving and kind way. We need to show our S that we still love them but we don't love their actions and thus there are certain consequences.

I think where I failed is to clearly explain those to her, ie you are choosing this so therefore this boundary is in place, instead I would just put up the boundary and she wouldn't understand, and interpret it as me being difficult.

[roist]

PacLove,

I have a few thoughts on your recent postings. I have not read back very far but have read your threads early on, so if I miss something bear this in mind.

1. Early on I thought you had a great chance at turning your situation around. I am glad to hear that may be the case.

2. You mentioned she ended A and AP wanted more. She decided this wasn't for her. That is great BUT is not the same as her committing to M. Until that commitment is there you are not piecing IMO.

3. Maybe you came across as bitter with your boundaries. Maybe you could have put them in place in a kinder way. I like that you shared your observations to help others. Whereas I agree it is best to avoid bitterness and resentment, I would not focus too much on what she thought about it. A boundary is about you. Plus the more she disliked your boundary the more effective it is . I do not mean that consequences should be aimed to displease WAS but the less things go their way, the more it makes them reflect and think.

Even if you were bitter, it is better than being a doormat.

4. I agree with being/acting in a kind way, but disagree that we have to show them that we still love them. There are exceptions to this but once there is an A and a S, they need to see you move on and hence not be shown that you still love her.

5. Thread very slowly now. Do not ask her home. When/if she asks, take time again to reflect. Firstly to be sure but also so W knows it is not automatic that she can move back. Reflect now about your boundaries for such a scenario and be clear about them with her.

Unfortunately this is a slow process and I have observed many times on this forum that people who reconcile too quickly tend to split again later. Better to take it slow and steady.

I hope this comes across as helpful. Much of it was written so newbies reading your thread don't misinterpret some points. I wish you luck and am truly happy for the positive turn. Many vets warn that now is when the hard work starts. Be ready. This will not be easy but you can do this.

Best wishes

[PatientMan]

A lot of people here talk about "garnering respect" from their wives, by a Man... I'd be curious how one delineates "controlling" from "boundaries" I've struggled with this along my journey as I know my wife would say that I was someone that had to be in control of most aspects in our lives.

So how does one garner the respect without appearing to be controlling? (Sandi hoping you'll chime in on this one ;-)

Boundaries are for YOU. Control is for another person.

Ask yourself, "What's my motivation?" and you have to be HONEST about it. If you find yourself justifying questionable behavior (behavior that can go either way or is in that "gray area"), that is a red flag that your mind is trying trick you into doing something that doesn't align with your goals.

-PM

[PatientMan]

Lately I've been tempted to join some online dating sites but I know that DR/DB advises against this. Why is that? If we are supposed to be truly acting as if we are "moving on" wouldn't this help?

It isn't really DR/DB advice, it is solid GENERAL advice because you need to work on YOU before you consider adding someone else into the mix of your life. If you fail to do the work to fix the issues you have that may have led to the problems in your MR, you are more likely to experience a repeat of those same problems in another relationship.

Cadet likely wrote you a welcome post at some point that included the reminder that you have been given the gift of time. USE IT!

If W caught wind of this I know it would certainly send a sign to her (a few of her friends are on the sites so it would likely get back to her at some point)

This is an example of CONTROL and not BOUNDARIES. You move on for YOU, not to send a message to anyone else.

A byproduct of DB'ing is that the spouse is intrigued and sometimes threatened by you moving forward/on, but it is unwise to fake this aspect by engineering the byproduct of hard work without doing the hard work. This would be putting the cart before the horse.

-PM

[PatientMan]

Wow what a change! But thought I'd share the good news for those out there in limbo land.

W opened up the R discussion this week asking what should we do... I'll spare most of the details out of respect for her, but the A is apparently over, she showed genuine remorse and honesty about what's been going on. The way she talked about the A is so textbook, it had run it's course, he wanted more she wasn't willing to, caught up in the excitement etc.

We are both not sure what is next, but the good news is we are "talking". I had actually came to the conclusion of either outcome about a month ago and was looking to move on..

We have a long road ahead whichever path we take. One comment I will share though - healthy boundaries are important but be careful they don't come off as being bitter. Two things she shared with me that hurt her the most in the past year were a feeling I was being bitter and a feeling of not being safe due to my snooping - that is apparently what drove her to move out and what scares her most about coming back.

Believe none of what they say and only half of what they do, right? I am not saying your comments are wrong, but I find it *convenient* that:

1) Her A is over and all of a sudden she is willing to work with you. It sounds like she may have an emotional void that needs filled and you are more than willing to jump to the rescue.

2) SHE cheated, yet isn't comfortable with YOU??? Don't forget who committed adultery here. I'm definitely not advising you to hold her affair against her, only that you don't allow yourself to be manipulated by a distorted, revisionist history.

-PM

[PacLove]

Wow thanks for the responses guys... a few comments below.

First and foremost, yes perhaps not piecing yet. What we discussed over the weekend was do we even have a future together.

She acknowledged that the A polluted things this past year but at the same time she had felt disconnected in the M for years so questions whether we can ultimately fix that or if too much damage has been done.

We both took a very practical approach to conversation to see if we have shared life goals and expectations out of a R/M together and if we did we would then discuss what "repairing" our relationship might look like.

There's still a lot of confusion on her part, and many around me are guiding me to be very careful - no surprises there.

I'm holding back at a distance and letting her drive the change. As we said goodbye yesterday she asked me to let her know when we can meet with an IC together.

As for her begging to come back - I used to think that would be the only way I'd accept her as it would show she truly wanted the M, but being able to rationalize and discuss with her whether we together want this Marriage anymore or not certainly feels much more humane and reasonable.

PM - I sense a lot of anger in you about cheating and adultery, while I don't condone it at all, the simple fact is it happens and many of us are on her because of it. I've accepted that it's happened and have accepted the fact that I can move past it if she shows genuine remorse and a willingness to change. I think that opens the door big-time for Reconciliation. I've read some estimates that greater than 50% of M are afflicted with it - crazy. I read an excellent book that really helped me understand why it happens - unfortunately due to forum rules I can't reference it here but it has to do with not being just friends if you want to search it.

[PatientMan]

Actually, it was my LACK of anger that piggy-backed off of my rampant self-blame that doomed me to keep repeating the same mistakes. My vision was clouded and I justified behavior that likely was detrimental to my goals because I didn't want to believe my reality was real and take the hard steps necessary to move forward.

I hope you take more from my posts than a perceived view of anger. What I wrote to you is basic DB'ing and advice, but if you don't want that I'll post elsewhere.

-PM