XW showing signs or just MLC script

[CaliGuy]

I think when we move on in some cases, they decide to come back-

Its obvious she is not sure, so that is good
Once you detach , she will feel the energy of you being gone
Then without you and the girls, she is left with OM
and she will realize that he is not making her happy either

She's in therapy..she feels regret --I think thats a start
I never got anything like that from my X

Totally agree on all of this.

I just read some clips of a former MLCW who also said as much. She said her H did not say anything but she just knew he had dropped rope and moved on, she stated at first she felt relief and some freedom but 8-10 months later the WTF came over her and the OP mask started falling off .... she said throughout the crisis she knew OP was not who she would grow old with but she had this undeniable urge to be selfish and live it up ... conflicted with the knowledge she was hurting her family ... try as she might evil was winning out while she was deep in crisis.

Sound familiar?

I think you are doing well Irish ... I would absolutely pull back the TM exchanges at this point. I would just place a boundary on it and tell her if she feels she really needs to talk then a phone call at a set time would be best .... otherwise like Peace mentioned you are the new OM and play into her cake-eating ways.

If OM was so great why TM you ... looking for sympathy for a cat?? Games ....

[Brubeck]

She texted and emailed quite a bit with ups and downs emotionally. Eventually i just said it. It's what she wanted to hear and I needed to hear her reaction. She pulled every string, poked me at every angle. It's been going on long enough her messages with regret of leaving, shame things ended this way, I should of loved her more and fought for her...and she still feels for me. So i just said simply. " I do love you and worry about you"

Her messages changed right there and then.
"Oh Irish, you need to move on, shouldn't still be in love with me. You need to find true love, be happy."

So I wrote her a small message, not even long enough to call it a letter. I said stop the games. You are playing with feelings that I thought were gone. You forced my hand into saying words I do not care to say to you. Once again you show me that talking to you is a mistake. So please stop.

She replies.Well your love is too late. Action speaks louder than words , and you are all words.

Hey Irish,

Catching up. Not much to add. Ditto to what Peacetoday and CaliGuy said.

Most of all - that last sentence: "Well your love is too late. Action speaks louder than words , and you are all words."

Arrrgh. That pissed me off to read that. I hate hearing that for you. I have walked into that trap 2 or 3 times, and I kick myself every time for letting my W get to that point. "STFU Smoothie" is indeed the way to go. I understand the urge to speak out as you did. It gets tiring to wear the armor all day.

[Lana_71]

Hi Irish ... you might think of it as a set back... I personally think you just left the door open ... no need to feel bad about that nor to respond to her comments .. don't let her dictate your response. Just ignore her ...
you havenot done anything wrong you should be proud of your feelings at least you still can love and you still have good memories... channel them to be the best man you can be and show her and everyone else the best version of you.... let her think what did I loose and for what ... focus on what you are grateful for for at least you had good memory of last 15 years while she doesnot ... i try not to take things personally .... I don't her left me because he left his kids, his mom, his siblings, his friends , his whole life.... so basically sh left his own self and I am just a part of the package... I try to feel pity rather than anger...for life for them must be lonely.....they thought we are controlling them so they ran ... without much thought that they always had a choice to do what they wanted in the M but they did not and it s easier to blame after that....
Have a great weekend .....

[bttrfly]

Hey Irish,
don't beat yourself up ... she knows what buttons to push after all these years. I'm sorry you're going through this with her. I think you're right to shut it down moving forward. All any of us can do is treat these situations as learning experiences and try to do things differently if another similar situation presents itself.

You are right: she is still with OM and even if she wasn't, it's clear she hasn't done nearly the amount of work needed to fully heal. You have your own healing to continue to do my friend.

How has a your weekend been? I had my dear friends over for a nice lunch today to thank them for all their help and support during the past year and a half. The grocery store had rib eye on sale so I broiled it, sauteed some mushrooms and onions and made some yummy peas with lovely rolls. We had a nice time now s and I are watching our team play against SF Giants. I hope you and the girls have had a nice weekend. Take care my friend and {{{{{{{hugs}}}}}}}} cuz you def. deserve and may need them. xoxoxo

[Irish M]

I think you are right, there is no point in engaging in any conversation, especially not through messaging. !

I Esame, you I'm done with texting. You can't see or feel the real emotion. Won't be doing that anytime soon.

I think if you drop the rope and totally let her go

she may hit bottom faster, harder-since part of her security was having/seeing if you were there

I think when we move on in some cases, they decide to come back-

Its obvious she is not sure, so that is good
Once you detach , she will feel the energy of you being gone
Then without you and the girls, she is left with OM
and she will realize that he is not making her happy either

Hi Peace, hi copied some of your key points. Yes I agree. If I was completely moved on. I think she would crash. I am the only window she has now to the girls. And her games are making me pull down the blinds very fast and hard. I am having little hope for her these days.

I think Peacetoday gave good advice.
Best wishes

Hi roist , thanks for stopping by and the support. :-)

In general, I think a gentle and kind withdrawal is a good way to go. Not so much with truth darts, but just minimal and not very available...

But I think the main thing is to extract yourself from the circular and unproductive conversations.

Hi Sotto,
yes I am going dark. Text messages have to be blocked. Email to spam.
I think i truth darted her enough so I hope she thinks about it a little. If not, well I'm moving forward, she can start the process all over. Its her MLC not mine.

I would absolutely pull back the TM exchanges at this point. I would just place a boundary on it and tell her if she feels she really needs to talk then a phone call at a set time would be best .... otherwise like Peace mentioned you are the new OM and play into her cake-eating ways.

If OM was so great why TM you ... looking for sympathy for a cat?? Games ....

Hey Cali,
I won't be anyone's OM. lol she was all over the place. Sympathy and games she could have earned the award for best actress in both these categories.

She almost had be eating it all up. What killed her chances was the script she was reading from. Crazy as it might seem but I felt I've seen this movie before and just needed to walk out of it.

that last sentence: "Well your love is too late. Action speaks louder than words , and you are all words."

Arrrgh. That pissed me off to read that. I hate hearing that for you. I have walked into that trap 2 or 3 times, and I kick myself every time for letting my W get to that point. "STFU Smoothie" is indeed the way to go. I understand the urge to speak out as you did. It gets tiring to wear the armor all day.

Hi Brubeck, yes hearing that was like a slap in my face. I just hope she is mirroring what she is doing because she is all talk.

Yes very tiresome the armor.

you might think of it as a set back... I personally think you just left the door open ... no need to feel bad about that nor to respond to her comments .. don't let her dictate your response. Just ignore her ...
you have not done anything wrong you should be proud of your feelings at least you still can love and you still have good memories... channel them to be the best man you can be and show her and everyone else the best version of you....

Hi Lana
yes you are exactly right. She shouldn't be able to dictate my responses or make me question myself. I came too far to be shot down or to be sent back to GO. I will ignore her negativity as it is not part of my path. My memory is of a great relationship and family. I was lucky to of had the last 17 years. I will continue to share this love and great family bond with my 2 girls. They deserve it too.

You are right: she is still with OM and even if she wasn't, it's clear she hasn't done nearly the amount of work needed to fully heal. You have your own healing to continue to do my friend.

Hi bttrfly
yes OM is still there so no point in even trying to see where she is. She's still where she wants to be. I truth arrow'd her so if she can't figure it out. I look away and continue my journey

Weekend was great. very warm weather. unseasonable so I got all the yard work done and was able to get in some great photos of the fall before the snow arrives this week. Mix of time with the girls ( shopping for coats and boots) and my favorite PUB. Finalizing my reservation to bring my staff from the 3 offices into town to celebrate Xmas together. I am so looking forward to it.

this was a long post so my update will follow.

[Irish M]

Hey everyone.

So no contact for the past weekend. Was nice. Funny how the energy from XW can disrupt a peaceful mood so fast.

Quick update on the details of XW text messages. Point form to highlight the key comments from her.
- Last 10 years wasn’t fake
- If we paid for the best MC we wouldn’t be in this situation. We owed ourselves that.
- I regret hurting the girls and you
- I didn’t feel loved by you or the girls. Pain was strong I had to run
- Our friends abandoned me too even if I deleted them from FB and never reached out to them
- I feel dead inside
- At times I wanted to end it all
- Why didn’t you try to stop me? Why did the girls just let me go? It proves my point about not being wanted
- You say you love me and worry about me. Action speaks louder than word and you are all words.
- Irish, you need to move on, be happy
- Your parents didn’t try to help me. They knew something was wrong with me. My sister and mother either. Everyone doesn’t care what happens to me.

All that above is pretty good stuff. Things that a LBS would love to hear. Wow. Is she waking up?

Today was a phone call.

I could honestly say she spoke to me as if I was 5. In a soft condescending tone.

It started with a hello from her.

XW: Parent teacher interviews are tomorrow. The school told me to stay way because it’s a safe place for the girls. They don’t want me there making a fuss.

Me: yes it is. I agree with them.

XW: I miss the girls.

Me: I believe you. But have you told them and explained to them what happened. Why you neglected them for so long.

XW: Irish. I left you. I did nothing wrong to them. You manipulated the girls against me.

Me: we are not having this conversation. I can’t help you. Your relationship is between you and them. I don’t control them or manipulate. They are old enough to see you for who you are.

XW: I’m not a monster. I am their mother.

Me: well then you should act like a mother then. Put them first.

XW: I won’t introduce them to my boyfriend. Why don’t they like him? My mother and sister don’t talk to me. You manipulated them.

Me: wow. I must be amazing at that. Manipulation. I guess I manipulated everyone.

XW: Yes. Even our friends. And I put them in brackets (friends) because they all abandoned me when I needed them the most.

Me: not having this conversation . I have to go. I’m home

XW: I know I saw you drove by. (Her work is on the main road leading to the bridge to my side of town)

Me: I have to go.

XW: if we paid for a MC maybe things would have been different.

Me: no, we would still be where we are today. Your destiny.

XW: (yelling now) OH YOU ARE SO MUCH BETTER THAN ME. MANIPULATOR AND CONTROLLING. THAT IS WHY I LEFT YOU. NOW YOU CONTROL THE GIRLS

ME: ok. Nice talking to you. End of conversation.

XW: I’ll call your parents.

Me: they are in their 70’s. They have been through a lot with all this. They most certainly don’t need you calling them and stressing them out. I would appreciate it if you don’t. bye

I hang up

It went on a little too ling. First time I spoke to her since January mediation. I think. Lol can’t really remember.

Shows me she is back to square one. No regret really and narcissistic behavior and entitlement. She did nothing wrong. How do you block a private number lol?

Start of a great week. Ground is covered in snow and the geese are heading south.
Wish you all a great week.
Irish

[Sotto]

Hi Irish, I'm sorry you had a difficult conversation with her. Just out of interest, I wonder how that conversation would have gone if you had purely validated. Nothing else. No going into rights, wrongs, who did what etc. Can I suggest you consider trying that in your next interaction with her? Maybe even have the validation cheat sheet to hand and only respond in that vein?

If you read back the above and replace your comments with validating ones - only - and not truth darts, how does that read?

I'm saying this because from all that she says and writes, she isn't in a good place just now. And I think your truth darts may add to that - and perhaps may make it harder for her to progress? And (even if you don't want any kind of future with her) the best outcome IMHO would be some reconciliation with her children. Both for them and for her I think....even if that is just a visit now and again. It is better to have some sort of R with your parents than none.

I understand the need to 'show' her - but you did X and Y - and not give her a 'free pass' here - but in truth I suspect she is feeling many consequences already.

I think compassion and validation and detachment from you may help in these interactions. From what you write (and perhaps due to your understandable hurt) you seem quick to jump to...but you did X...

Maybe try something different and see how that goes??

Hope this helps Irish and feel to disregard if not useful to you...xx

[Irish M]

Hi Sotto xx
Yes I see what you are saying.
There's is nothing to fix between me and her. She's done too much damage and I am tired of validating her because she feels justified.

The girls want nothing to do with her. Her inability to see or remember what she did to them is her downfall. I was her window to them.
My problem is I am looking for that small pocket of her being that mom she was. If I saw that I'd help her with the girls full speed ahead. Sadly that mom is gone for good.

I need to remind myself she needs to fix it with them herself. Her messages to them. The last one was over a week ago and it was blame to them and entitlement to her as their mom.

I have a hard time stepping away because of good memories of her. The pain seeing my girls live this is too much. I want them to connect. Just right now XW is not ready.

[Sotto]

Thank you for validating my post xx

I'd like to ask a couple of questions if I may?

Does she need to earn your compassion, or can you offer that to her regardless? How does your stance of 'if she offers X, I'll offer Y' serve you going forwards?

Is there truly nothing to fix? I appreciate you may not want to reconcile and that's up to you of course. But is there residual pain and anger to fix? For everyone?

Do you think you have put yourself in a kind of 'gatekeeper' role here?

What would help you 'step away' a little more?

Feel free not to answer if these aren't helpful to you my friend....and I truly want you to know how much I respect all that you are doing for yourself and your girls. I only want the best for you.

Xx

[Lifes Twists]

Hi Irish,

You are at about the 4 month mark post Divorce. I have seen in my situation along with others that this is about the point they start to admit to themselves that the sun is not shining, that the birds are not singing, and that they are not happy as they expected.

I believe this to be just another stage of the process. At this point, even though she is un happy and the divorce did not fix this she will still try to focus most of the fault on you and what you did or didn't do. Its not worth trying to counter her or convince her other wise. She needs to reach this conclusion on her own. I would not engage in any conversation that has her blaming you until you can get a feeling that she is open to a discussion that allows you to voice a different opinion without her attacking you. For now I would keep any conversation on the girls and how you can work together helping them to grow up into healthy young women. Any other conversations should just have you saying you have to go and ending the conversation. Allowing her to spew or shooting truth darts at this point is not worth any of your time nor does it serve a purpose.