Me and my 2 daughters

[peacetoday]

Irish

You did handle it so well-

I tend to agree that the MLCer life goes more downhill as the years go on
the dreams they planned upon leaving never quite happen

Her reaching out seemed like a little bit of all that was mentioned
-her checking up to see who this new woman was
-her frustration and grief about the lack of R with Kids
-her not knowing if she made a mistake or not admitting it yet
-her seeing if you still loved her and was waiting for her to come home
- holidays and loneliness

she may know at this point her life is a mess also, but it may be too hard for her to fix b/c
It would require many hours of self reflection and therapy which she may not be ready to do
The MLCer would like a quick fix , but the problem is they leave impulsively because the OP is so amazing and makes them feel good
that wears off and then they are in a worse situation than previously and no inner work has been done..
WE know this but they live their live in denial and replay -seeking happiness and fun
but it can't be achieved that way
Sounds like she still has quite a way to go-

[Irish M]

I find it quite interesting that she texts you but emails the girls.

Hi HaWho, good hearing from you :-)
Yes she emails them due to the fact she cancelled their phones she was paying for a year ago. I since got them new phones but the girls refuse me to give her their numbers. She has their Facebook, twitter, the home phone and good old fashion mail to connect if she so wishes to.

Before I answer on the invite you really do have to clarify if there will be any Guinness there...

Yes Guinness will be flowing. Not to worry for the other beer drinkers i do keep a good variety available.

I can bring "real" Canadian beer and perhaps some german garlic sausages for the BBQ. PS - I'm very proud of your girls.

Hi Andrew, I'm actually reading your sitch. It's tough man. keep moving forward.
I am in Canada so I'm good on the Canadian beer. The German sausage however.. i'll put you down for that.

I too am very proud of my girls. I hope they get through this and learn from it. The cycle has to stop here.

Let's face it, Irish, our spouses know us well. They know how to manipulate and push and pull until they get a reaction.

Hi bttrfly xox
Yes they do know us. It's a huge weapon for them. We know them as well but we know the version they were and not the version they are today. Huge set back. That is why it is so key. I wrote that down somewhere on my hand but it keeps washing off so I forget. Maybe a 180/GAL tattoo on my wrist would help.

Her reaching out seemed like a little bit of all that was mentioned
-her checking up to see who this new woman was
-her frustration and grief about the lack of R with Kids
-her not knowing if she made a mistake or not admitting it yet
-her seeing if you still loved her and was waiting for her to come home
-holidays and loneliness

Hi Peace xox

no clue because we are not mind readers right lol

Well XW did message me today. 3 parts

-1- she says that she felt used. Wiped bums, cleaned, cooked, was a taxi, unappreciated and unwanted. We treated her as a rag that we would dispose of. She felt so much pain, even thought of killing herself. Now she is in therapy to deal with it all.

I can not understand her mind at all on this. I know they invent new history and its all bad to them. But WOW. She is really so far from the truth. OK parents all change diapers, clean, drive their kids to party's and school. Isn't that part of life. I love doing it. And to one day see them grown and have families of their own. It's all good to me.

-2- she brings up the pre-crisis of 10 years ago. 1/4 crisis. Her cheating. How I was jealous after that and needed validation. How it made her sick. Says she shouldn't of swept it under the rug and we should of focused on therapy and dealt with it. If the therapist wasn't good, find one that will help us. We owed that to ourselves.

Now i presume this is relationship talk of past. She needs to clean her conscience.
I am just validating and not throwing all the crap she did. No attacks.

-3- Her mom opened up to her more about her own issues as a child. That when XW turned 38 it all came back to XMIL and she felt the need to fill my XW in with all her troubled life.

So both are in therapy

It ended there because I turned my phone off for the day.

I'm going out to take some amazing pictures of the foliage. This is the final week then the snow will start to fall. I am looking forward to Xmas this year.

Irish

[peacetoday]

She really seems like she is in some kind of reflection of her life

Not sure what that exactly means, but she sounds regretful and trying to figure out if she did the right thing

I think by you validating her, it may open the door for more communication-
good that she is in therapy-

You are doing very well..does not sound like she is ready to let you go-
and because you are moving on..she may sense she will loose you and the girls

IDK--I guess you said it we can't really know until they say it and then its still not 100%
because they go in and out of tunnel
sometimes they get clarity and then fly away again-

[Irish M]

Hi peace :-)

I think she is in some sort of reflection. It's been 3 straight days of texting by her. A lot of relationship talk. Where she is with her therapy etc.

She is however all over the map with her messages.

Things she talked about. I'll try to break it down as simple as possible without the complete texts.Her initial message then she would follow it up with **MLC text.. My reply to her in red

-How much she really loved me. Enough to have 2 children with.
** Then she'd write that she carried them for 9 months, breast fed them and raised them.They should want me.
Yes, you did all that. It does take 2 to make babies, we raised them together and quite well because they are amazing girls.

-How she is sorry about what happened and cheating on me.
** then she'd write that she is with OM and won't make the same mistakes
Great you trash one family and learn from it only to better the one you have with the person you trashed your original one with. nice.

-How she knows she did wrong to the girls. That she remembers some but not all.
**Then she says that she has no clue why the girls are still angry with her. It's been over a year and they should just all start from zero
It's not as easy as that. The girls need closure and understanding why you did what you did. It's important for them to better deal with it rather than sweep it under the rug

The only reason I went to OM was because I thought my family (me and the girls) didn't love her since we didn't fight for her to stay. Just let her go.
** Then also said , well I did what I did, its in the past , can't go back so it is what it is
Sorry you felt this way,you were wrong.

In mediation thought you'd say at least you love me. You didn't try.
**Proves to me that i was right to go to OM.
Again sorry you felt that way. In mediation you wouldn't even look at me. Like I was not even there. And you had your plan all set up, nothing i could of said or done would of changed that.

I do love you and I'm sorry we are here.
**I was in love with you but now I'm not. you have to accept it.
No comment on this one

I am seeing a therapist. So much happened to me as a child.Things I never told you because I was afraid you'd judge me.My therapy is helping me understand my issues i had all my life.
** There's a woman who was about to do what I did to you and the girls. I stopped her. Helped her get help. At least I can help others not make the same mistake i did.
I'm happy you can help others.

I am so glad we are talking. I would call you but hearing your voice will be too difficult
**OM did save me from pain. when the girls rejected me he was there.
Maybe we can talk another day .

those were the main topics.

definitely spinning,.,. Temp checking...

She did write to the girls 2 more times. One was a message that she was with her moms family,. Everyone misses them and would like to see them. The girls did reply. Only to say that her family was never close to them and none of them ever reached out to see if they were ok.

she replied. I'm sorry they never reached out. No we were not close to them and they are a bit cold.Maybe we could have a hot chocolate one day and talk. OM won't be there . you will never have to meet him ever.

The girls chose not to reply since OM was brought up.

Irish

[kml]

Well handled. Except when she said she was going to do better with OM, I would have said "If he'll cheat WITH you he'll cheat ON you.

[Kyh]

Hi Irish, wow, sounds like you handled this very well and like she is still out there. The mlc script is crazy, it's eerie how they all read from it. I heard so many similar/same things and almost the first text verbatim. As hawho told me, did she think she'd lay an egg in the sand, lol.

I haven't posted to your threads but once or twice but I follow along and you've been a great help to me, your girls are so lucky to have you. Thank you! Take care and keep up the good work.

[Sotto]

Gosh, she's all over the place with these messages. I wonder whether you even need to engage with her on some of this stuff - there seems to be a lot of unproductive going back and forth I think.

Perhaps you can work on the basis of kind, but minimal...?

But, for sure she's thinking about things. Maybe just a little peek out and maybe something more sustained, but who knows at this stage?

Hope you have a good weekend Irish :-)

[peacetoday]

Irish

Wow.. a lot going on here

I am not a therapist nor expert in MLC but her messages do seem positive to me

I would continue to validate her if for nothing else to help her healing to forgive herself-
I would be available only if she contacts you and not immediately..because you are busy with your own new life

I might also give some thought to offering her a way to reconnect with all of you -when she is ready
like if she wanted to go to a therapist with you to discuss her issues and unhappiness you would support her either in her transition out or reconnection back-the reconnection back might be a friendship for now-AS long as she is clean and not using drugs-then its another issue ..I would just offer it up so its available--then let it go
she will have to do the work.you can't do it for her

that a reconnection is possible with the girls but it may require help and time

at the same time, I would also keep moving on with your life
if you are dating..or just making new friends--continue..she will feel the energy that you are moving on without you even saying it..

So if she wants to explore the options, she needs to move fast before you are settled somewhere else..If there is a way to verbalize this without being pushy or pursuing ..just factual-

Just my thoughts

[CaliGuy]

Irish

Very interesting indeed. I think what I come away with after reading you post is how well you handled the exchanges, truth darts placed perfectly and not buying into her 'poor me... I'm the victim' tone. I agree, she is reflecting and the voice of reason may be tugging at her asking herself how a mother could walk out on her husband and daughters. Holidays will do this I know it shook mine out of the tunnel for a few months back in 2015 but the gravity of the damage made her run right back in.
She may be starting to want to reconnect to your daughters and given the time line it would not be all that suprising unfortunately for her your daughters are not going to make it easy .... I think it's a good thing and will force her to take a deeper look inward which would be beneficial for her
The way that you handled the "I won't repeat my mistakes with OM" line was far better than how I would have done TBH, would have been hard not to blast her with that comment which tells me how far you've come

Continue as you have been and I would want to see her actually start taking ownership of her actions vs playing that MLC blame game ... she is trying hard to process things but still validating herself and what she did ... no one in Camp Irish is buying so she is discovering it's a tough sell even to herself

[bttrfly]

hear hear KML