Still hanging on ... just

[j20a00g]

Hey everyone,

So yeah, didn't see much of wife throughout saturday as various kid duties. She went ot get her hair done late afternoon, so didn't see her until evening. If your following my story, she is going out tonight, so new hair looking good. In a good mood as we prepare food for family.

I find a movie to watch with S12, and he inititially doesn't want to watch it, but 20 mins in he starts to like it. W comes out of bedroom to talk to son, "is dad making you watch a bad movie?", S12 "nah! its actually ok!". 30mins later W comes back in home theatre, "Im going in 10 mins", S12, "where are you going so late?", S,m "im going out with my friend Shelbie". S12 "why so late ?", Its around 9:40pm. I said, "thats the time you go out clubbing".

I say "Have a good night!", admittedly in a flat tone, and she says "Yes! I will have a fantastic time!", and wiggles her hips. I say "Why say it like that ?", she says "because you are clearly not happy that I am going out?". I said "I didn't mean it like that, I genuinely mean have a good night!". She wanders off.

A bit later, I got to room and say "Hey! why be so sensitive over what I said?". She says, "well clearly you are not happy I am going out", I say "well I would like to go dancing as well!", she says "well I don't want to go with you. We have been out 3-4 times over the last 4 months so I want to do something different!". I said, I understand, and I am genuinly happy that you will have a night out, I am sure you will enjoy it."

She is so cold about goig out, clearly I have no opinion and can't ask about anything witout her being offended.

I said, "You look Stunning! I do really hope you have a good night!". And then I left the room. 5 mins later she left to go out.

As of now, I finished movie witgh S12, then set up the SPA, drunk a bottle of red wine while watching a movie, which I enjoyed.

Now in home theatre, planning to sleep before she gets home. The thing is, if you saw my wife dressed up, there is no way guys won't be hitting on her, but in true WW/WAS syndrome, does she really see beyond the initial attraction ?

I don't think so, she is probably MLC as well, and thinking her whole life will be better if we seperate. But she hasn't thought this through at all.

I am so confused about DR/DB, as it seems that you offer yourself as a doormat for your S, and you have to focus on being perfect, while they do whatever they want, with the vague hope that one day they might turn around and come back to you.

How is this sustainable? If you have been the weaker partner (NGS etc) how do you turn that around without you waiting for you S to decide your worth it? Do people understand the paradox I am trying to explain ?

Since you read both DR and DB then you may want to start applying them. How many times did you have to tell her to have a good night? or that she looked good? Or that you wanted to go? Or to be involved in the night in anyway (including the jab about clubbing)?

You took an opportunity to show your detaching and made it into a situation where you were smothering, badgering, and pressuring.

Less is more.

[BillyHo]

^^^^what he said

[Oluwa]

Well its the morning now (730am), I managed to sleep through her coming home, which was my plan. The last thing I wanted was for her to see me lying awake waiting for her. Also I slept in the Home Theatre, so she didn't need to disturb me. Normally if she goes out (shes only been out 2-3 times so far), I sleep in MBR, then I know when she is back and safe etc. When I woke to go to toilet earlier, I did walk past MBR (have to on way to toilet), to see that she was home. The door was open, as the AC was on, which I set to go off at 4am, so she must have been back before 4am.

You took an opportunity to show your detaching and made it into a situation where you were smothering, badgering, and pressuring.

Yes, I guess I did. I had in my mind to wish her a good night, and I guess it came out not as genuine as I wanted it to be. The comment about clubbing wasn't a jibe at all, it was simply explaining to S12 why you dont go out to late.

Of course, when she wasn't happy about it, that's why I went to her later to try and smooth over it. I didn't want her to go out feeling angry with me.

But please see my comment again here :-

I am so confused about DR/DB, as it seems that you offer yourself as a doormat for your S, and you have to focus on being perfect, while they do whatever they want, with the vague hope that one day they might turn around and come back to you.

How is this sustainable? If you have been the weaker partner (NGS etc) how do you turn that around without you waiting for you S to decide your worth it? Do people understand the paradox I am trying to explain ?

So I haven't read all of DR yet, only upto Step 3. There was a good section about a guy called Rob (in Step 1) and how he felt when the wife went out with girls. This is me down to a tee, and from a DR perspective how I should be behaving.

But I would be lying if I don't feel some resentment, that I have to do all the work. As it has already been a year and a half, I don't know I can maintain this new lack of interest. I can't get over the fear that the more I detach and act disinterested the more she will be able to do what she wants. And eventually she will move to an EA and PA to get out of the marriage. I say this, as we aren't getting any closer after all this time. I feel she wants her life separate to experiment and maybe date other guys. She is incredibly hot, and I am not being biased, she always get guys hitting on her when we go out. So what if she decides to do something about that one day? Can't people see, that as a man, I would then deeply regret not ending the relationship before this happens ? Yes I don't know it will, but there are no good signs to say that she wants the work on the marriage.

Whereas, she is quite happy to talk to me about things that happen to her, like at the hairdressers, and treat me like a friend. She is 100% cake eating with me as someone who is always there for her, but provides nothing in return in terms commitment to the M.

I'm sorry to keep arguing this, I just feel that detaching in some way, and not being effected by what she is doing, is the same NGS that I have done for years. Shouldn't I have enough self respect to not wait, to ask for some commitment to our marriage. Yeah sure she is not ready to do that you will say, but what about my feelings, why is it that I have to wait for her to decide. I am feeling bleak about this (as you can see), and am so scared that I will wait and wait and wait, enabling her wonderful life, only for her to eventually say well I am now ready to D, thanks!

I have said this a few times in this thread, how is this sustainable as a R, surely she still sees me as someone that will just put up with everything, she is free to do what she wants until she decides.

Whereas, if I am to say "ok I am ready to separate!" its on my terms then, which has never been the case with previous relationships, I always hang on to the bitter end like a dog with a bone.

[j20a00g]

You have been doing the same stuff for the last year and a half so why are you expecting anything different to happen?

You just said that she talks To you as a friend about life and such. You are friend zoned. You detaching would involve not being available for those convos.

[j20a00g]

Bro I can't stress enough about you making the books a priority to get through and apply the knowledge

[MoveFrwd]

Why do you think that being the one to say "let's separate" will hurt less?

Why do you think that her being with another man will hurt you less if you are separated?

EITHER WAY, the pain will be the same if you aren't detached. THAT is where you need to focus. Separated or not, you can't control what she does. So your focus needs to be on YOU and your kids.

Not on her and your R.

[j20a00g]

Why do you think that being the one to say "let's separate" will hurt less?

Why do you think that her being with another man will hurt you less if you are separated?

EITHER WAY, the pain will be the same if you aren't detached. THAT is where you need to focus. Separated or not, you can't control what she does. So your focus needs to be on YOU and your kids.

Not on her and your R.

[j20a00g]

Why do you think that being the one to say "let's separate" will hurt less?

Why do you think that her being with another man will hurt you less if you are separated?

EITHER WAY, the pain will be the same if you aren't detached. THAT is where you need to focus. Separated or not, you can't control what she does. So your focus needs to be on YOU and your kids.

Not on her and your R.

Yup

[Oluwa]

Why do you think that being the one to say "let's separate" will hurt less?

Why do you think that her being with another man will hurt you less if you are separated?

EITHER WAY, the pain will be the same if you aren't detached. THAT is where you need to focus. Separated or not, you can't control what she does. So your focus needs to be on YOU and your kids.

Not on her and your R.

Good points as usual darknes. I am feeling that it is so hard to detach, which we are still in the same home, going through the motions. If we are separated then I know where we are then, and I guess it is a forced detachment, because I have also given up or let go of the rope as it were.

If I was to say "lets separate", then I think that I would feel like I had some control in the situation. You know I had made the decision to separate because she was showing no signs of trying to reconcile.

Other posters mentioned that I am friendzoned and that I should not allow those conversations anymore. I don't, at the moment, know how not to do that. Like if she comes to tell me about work or something, do I say "Im not interested", like how do I deflect the conversation?

Update Today

So she actually got up early and made us both coffee. Her and S12 were going to watch a soccer match, so I got my coffee and went to join them. At some point W and S12 had an argument and S12 left to do something else.

Rollercoast things she said in next 10 minutes :-

1. "Its going to be a nice day, we should all go out and do something together as a family today."
2. "Since i have to work over xmas, i'm thinking we look at booking 3-5 days away down south in january. Maybe we should invite some friends famlies as well".
3. "This guy Peter in my office is 62, and ever since I made him some chilli sauce, he seems to think I like him. He is always making signs that he likes me. He's old enough to be my father, crazy." She told me about making the sauce for him the weekend she made it, so its not a new thing.

This believe only 50% of what they say etc is so true. I guess the answer is not to interpret any of what she said, detach. But its hard, I'm trying to understand the dynamics of her confiding in me about stuff like that, talking about going on holiday, with the I want to separate talk from 3 weeks ago.

Are they all hooks to test the temp. with me, am I still there for her as it were? Did she get up to something last night, and these are all guilt comments? I get it, I just need to not be interested anymore, but I will have to address the holiday thing, i.e. do I agree to go or say thats not good idea at the moment.

Rollercoaster in full swing this weekend!

[j20a00g]

So part of the last resort technique is that if the WAS suggests family time you take the opportunity. It gives the import for you to use your new skills and to show the spouse the changed you. Now, with that being said. You really need to work on the process. Detach. You mentioned you are struggling there. We all do. Just be better than you were yesterday. And tomorrow be better than you were today. I think you have made some changes which is why she has come closer. But that doesn't mean you are out of the woods. Those are temperature checks for sure. Be ready for a couple of punches to follow over the next few days/week. I.e. "Just because I want to spend the day as a family doesn't mean I want to be married to you"