Hello Lou, I've been thinking of you and wondering how you were getting along. I'm sorry to read that things have taken an unwelcome turn. But I am glad to read that you are taking it all in your stride.
I really do think that MLCers inch along - and they/we get to a place where things seem to move forward. Then they back track. But I do think for a long time, your sitch has been steadily moving forward in a positive direction. Perhaps the pressure of the change has led to a bit of a retreat. Also, I still think if the depression is present, the emptiness inside is translated into I don't feel X for you.
Only time will tell, but for now I would take off the pressure of moving things forward and co-exist with him for a bit, whilst making plans and doing some of your own stuff too.
I don't believe someone uproots their life and changes it all for someone that they just don't feel any attraction for....
Keep us posted my friend :)xx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
Hi everyone, thank you for your advice and feedback.
job - I have read the link before and re reading it I have found myself nodding.
Nothing new to report really. H is still here, he went to his first counselling session and the day after wanted to talk about it, so we did. He feels he is further back now than before, that it is confirmed that is me he is having a problem with, not women in general. He said he has not given up hope of getting the spark back, but its now less probable and I should know this. He asked if I was happy for him to stay or do I want him to leave and that he does not want to put me under any more stress than necessary as it is killing him to know that he is hurting me once again. I replied no, that while he still has hope I have hope. We talked quite a bit about how much this is affecting him, he wants to have the full package and if I am not it then he does not want to give us "time" to see if we grow into each other the attraction develops, he said it will be too hard to get a year down the line and have to walk away from me then, that he would most probably stay and live a false life which would eventually blow up. He wants to have the opportunity to find said "full package" with someone else.
H said that the counselor (who is also my one) told him that we are both different people now, that 2 years is a long time apart, so it may be a case of him holding on to the history, love, caring, trust etc has made him feel I am his one and only, but that when he said he was no longer in love with me 2 1/2 yrs ago, he really had fallen out of love with me at that point and we are trying to find something that really isn't there anymore.
The IC suggested lots of things and h replied that we had tried them all, she was surprised we even share a bed and sleep naked together - it seems she slightly gave up with suggestions at this point. She wants to talk to him about the emotion and spiritual (not as in religion) side of our relationship next and try to take him back to when he was "in love" with me and hopes that will trigger off something for him. He is hoping she speaks to her mentors and gets some more ideas.
I get the feeling he really does want "us" and is genuinely disappointed that it is not happening and he really is trying to fix an issue he feels is too big to ignore. It makes all this even more heartbreaking. He talks about giving up everything for me as he was so sure it was right, that everything was right
Today was a little confusing, we were walking on the beach and he took my hand, I did not say anything, just allowed it to happen. He then went out and gave me a quick kiss goodbye. I wonder how that can be comfortable and non meaning of anything, but it seems it is. He has done it before so I know it means no more than it is for it.
So I am hanging in there, holding on to hope for dear life. Keeping things as happy and normal as possible. We laugh, we mess around and joke, we share stories, walk and talk. Trying to help him feel as comfortable in my company as possible, no pressure.
Underneath my heart is breaking, the tears have returned in private, the pain and emptiness feeling inside. The benefit of this being round 2 is that I know to feel it, let it happen and know that it will leave.
Thanks again for all your thoughts and hugs, I embrace them all xoxo
Oh Lou, I don't know what to say. I have not been to your position but it sounds like a heartbreaking thing to go through. I really haven't got any advice, I only wanted to say that up you are heard, and to send you strength.
(((Hugs)))
"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"
“There is freedom waiting for you, On the breezes of the sky, And you ask "What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, What if you fly?”
he's overthinking and trying too hard. that's my first hit. know that I have zero experience here and am probably talking out of an obscure key on my keyboard, but that is absolutely my first instinct as I read this. Also, is this IC someone who is trained in keeping marriages together? that's my next question. Many aren't, as we know.
So I'd like to know what Job thinks about this or any of our other vets ... You know you can come here to vent, cry whatever you need to do - we are here.
Lou my love, just keep taking care of yourself. You've grown so much since this began. Don't lose sight of that ever. You are amazing and wonderful. Just keep being you. Wish you were closer so I could make you tea and give you a hug. xoxoxoxoxo
M 20+ T25+ S ~15.5 (BD) BD 4/6/15 D 12/23/16
"Someone I loved once gave me A box full of darkness. It took me years to understand, That this too, was a gift." ~ Mary Oliver
Hi Lou, my heart goes out to you - it really does and I can understand why you feel so sad, rather than angry. From what you post, he really appears to be trying and wants to get there, but is also struggling and perhaps putting too much pressure on himself to 'feel the whole range of feelings from the get go.'
It may be worth you both just coasting along and allowing a little time for settling in before making any big decisions - perhaps a few months just to release the pressure and enjoy the nice things about being together..
Hopefully someone with more experience will chime in too...but in the meantime, do take care and keep posting as I do feel your sitch is at an important stage...
Big hugs to you xxx
T 13 M 7 Me 48 H 46 SS 15 BD 7.14 PA D final 5.16 (H filed)
We receive & we lose, and must try to achieve gratitude & embrace with whole hearts whatever of life that remains after the losses - Dubus
H said that the counselor (who is also my one) told him that we are both different people now, that 2 years is a long time apart, so it may be a case of him holding on to the history, love, caring, trust etc has made him feel I am his one and only, but that when he said he was no longer in love with me 2 1/2 yrs ago, he really had fallen out of love with me at that point and we are trying to find something that really isn't there anymore.
First of all - I think this counselor is stupid. Really. "Oh, you just fell out of love, too bad". Nonsense! People in marriages fall in and out of love all the time, and it's pretty clear in your H's case that it's his DEPRESSION that is the problem!!!
As for sex - all I can think of is the Nike slogan - "Just do it". Seriously, I think all this waiting around for him to feel like it's perfect is BS. Sometimes you just don't feel like doing it until you get started. Also, as an older man, his libido is starting to wane; just because he got a stiffy from the NOVELTY of a new person doesn't mean that the new person is better or that he's not in love with you. It just means that novelty can help an older man with flagging sexual function get an erection for a while.
As for you Lou - he's too sure of you. When he thought he might lose you he came back; once he came back and you were willing to turn your whole life topsy turvy for him, he started to lose interest. You need to make decisions for YOU. If he comes along, fine - if he doesn't, good riddance!
You struggled so hard for so long to reach some financial stability, it really bothered me that you were going to throw it all away to run off with him (he's still in debt too, right?). I know, you had figured it out and made a Plan B, you'll be alright - but not in as good a position as you would be if you had kept your job until you got a new one, and kept your apartment.
What you need to tell your H is that romantic feelings come and go. That's why marriage is a commitment! The feelings usually come back if you stick it through.
And then start going out in the evenings dancing with your girlfriends. Let him start to wonder a little bit whether he might lose you. He's altogether too sure of you right now.
Lou, I rarely post these days but I have been following your situation.
There are two strategies that I wold like to suggest.
1. to engage with him, in a really interested and non confrontational way, about what he means by falling out of love and being in love. Do not put your point of view, but just get him to explain what he means.
You can use phrases like 'help me to understand' (or whatever works for you). Avoid 'why' 'what' and other direct questions. People love to talk about themselves, if you approach it right, and though it might be painful you will almost certainly get some insights. You might even make him think as well, if not now, later.
2. Take something away that he wants: in this case he wants to keep his options open. My guess is that he doesn't want to lose you, but he has no insight at all into his state of mind (depression) and like all MLCers they are in survival mode and think only of themselves.
When you have had conversation (1) you can say really pleasantly, that this situation isn't working for you. That you love him, but you need to focus on you and your life, and that he goes away and sorts himself out. Offer to be his friend (if you like) but make it clear that for you, life is going on and there is no more sitting around waiting for him to make up his mind.
Honestly at this stage you have little to lose, imho. If he isn't going to work on the marriage (and MLCers want it oh so easy) then the greater probability is that this is going to happen further down the line. From all that you have posted his foray into other lifestyles/relationships hasn't worked so far, but that he isn't yet certain that he wants to commit to you..
However, he still isn't thinking of you primarily (which he needs to do) and in the comfort of a 'trial relationship' in which he may 'decide' it still isn't working, he will get the notion into his head that coming and going is OK.
Sad to say this site is littered with boomerang spouses who think a revolving door is an acceptable way to behave.
In their hearts, people respect those who are kind and firm. Think of him as a mix of toddler and adolescent. But you are not his mother, and I have come to believe that clear rules of engagement and boundaries work best.
Please disregard this advice if it seems harsh or lacking in understanding. I actually feel very deeply for your situation, and am far from certain that your husband has any inkling of what a selfish and risky way he is living his life.
Esame - Thank you, thank you, hugs and support go a long long way.
bttrfly -
Originally Posted By: bttrfly
he's overthinking and trying too hard. that's my first hit.
I agree. My thought is that he is expecting to feel everything too soon. It took time to break the relationship so it will take time to fix it.
sotto -
Originally Posted By: sotto
It may be worth you both just coasting along and allowing a little time for settling in before making any big decisions - perhaps a few months just to release the pressure and enjoy the nice things about being together.
Ideally I would like this, but h does not. He feels that the longer he leaves it the harder it will be to leave me if things should not sort themselves out. He feels that he would end up staying with me out of guilt and neither of us getting the relationship we deserve. I am not pushing this r or r talk with him. If there is one thing I have taken away from all of this, it is that you cannot control what anyone else feels, says or does, he will do what is right for him at the end of the day.
kml -
Originally Posted By: kml
First of all - I think this counselor is stupid. Really. "Oh, you just fell out of love, too bad". Nonsense! People in marriages fall in and out of love all the time, and it's pretty clear in your H's case that it's his DEPRESSION that is the problem!!!
Totally agree, if this is really the case. I do wonder if h has taken the bits he wanted to hear from her and disregarded the rest tho'.
Originally Posted By: kml
s for sex - all I can think of is the Nike slogan - "Just do it". Seriously, I think all this waiting around for him to feel like it's perfect is BS. Sometimes you just don't feel like doing it until you get started. Also, as an older man, his libido is starting to wane; just because he got a stiffy from the NOVELTY of a new person doesn't mean that the new person is better or that he's not in love with you. It just means that novelty can help an older man with flagging sexual function get an erection for a while.
Ha ha, thanks for the advice. Already tried that tact ...twice ...and did not go well either time. First time I got a half hearted reaction from him and that left me feeling horrible, and the second time we were messing around and I ended up naked on top of him and I got no physical reaction at all, so when I initiated more, he pushed me off and said "no, sorry" and got up. I was left feeling rejected and embarrassed. Since then I have stayed firmly in friend zone where sex is concerned.
Originally Posted By: kml
As for you Lou - he's too sure of you. When he thought he might lose you he came back; once he came back and you were willing to turn your whole life topsy turvy for him, he started to lose interest. You need to make decisions for YOU. If he comes along, fine - if he doesn't, good riddance!
I know. But as job says, do something to see if it works, if it doesn't dont do it again. I took a gamble and it dod not pay off, I am still glad I took the gamble as it may ....just a small chance ...have worked out ok. Hindsight is a wonderful thing, so maybe my mistakes will help someone else out who is heading towards my situation.
I have taken on board what everyone has said. I have started my job hunt and hopefully something will come along soon. If the worst comes to the worst and I am not successful within the next month then I know I can go back to my old work place, but that is desperate measures. I am looking for a car to help me be more independent and get me to interviews etc. Once I have a job I can start to look for a flat. I have also started meeting up with my g/friends more, and told friends I am still around (something I held off doing, a mix of embarrassment at things not going so well, and sadness). I know I need to get some security and stability back in to my life, if he wants to come along with me then great, otherwise at least I will be in a better position if he chooses not too.
Bea - H says that the thing that is missing is the sexual attraction. He says he sees me a physically attractive, like he does other people in general, but the spark, the feeling of wanting to kiss, touch, be touched by and have sex with , is not there for him, he feels nothing. He used to have it for me, right up to just before BD, but then it went away. He met her, it was off the scale for her when they met, then it fizzled out as the relationship sunk to doom. He then thought that the lack of sexual desire for me was because of the guilt he felt and that once he dealt with that then everything would be back to how he used to feel. He worked with his therapist and got to the point where he realised I am it for him, forever. But it turns out that what he thought he would feel about me once we were together full time, is not there and it worries him that he is no longer attracted to me, that he has changed too much, that his taste in women has changed and am now not "the full package"
Gwen - hi g/friend. Thank you so much. xoxo
Nothing else to add. H is at counselling atm giving me a chance to pop into here for a sneaky update. Who knows what he will come out with next, but one thing is for sure, I know from this being round 2, that I will be ok. It won't be great, but I will keep on breathing and I will get through the pain of it all.
