Wow, it was really long post yesterday. I should post more often and shorter! Will try.
And I did not say everything I wanted to say yesterday. I also wanted to share with you that I booked tickets to and hotels in Japan for the next cherry tree season. The idea of booking just for the 3 of us was difficult for me at first so I was postponing. I informed h before, that I was planning to go and that he decides what he wants to do (we promised it to our sons for 2017) and I was waiting for what he says. He never mentioned anything so I booked it 2 weeks ago and I'm fine with it!
As it turns out, h is not. He came today and we ended up having another 2 hours conversation (I don't know why I always let myself get into it). But it was quite a nice one, once I made it clear that he will not raise his voice, won't blackmail me anymore, insult me etc. which he started to do. And btw - it's definitely MLC! And nothing will make me doubt it after today.
He even talks at times like if we were together. Then seconds later he's giving me lectures how things are when people are not together and that we are not and the fact that I may disagree with the situation it doesn't make it any different (I don't disagree, btw). This made me point out to him that I really don't understand what he believes our situation is. I think I did not mention it here yet, but he filled in a questionnaire for s13's medical check. He put in it that parents live in a couple and to the question whether something happened since the last check (death, divorce, separation,...) he replied "no". So I asked him about it today as I said it's for the doctors to see if the kids can potentially have some issues that need to be addressed. He did not say anything.
During this discussion, for the first time in several months, he almost cried. When he was talking about the trip I booked. That he was surprised how I handled it and that he was expecting me to tell him before I was going to do that. I said I did. He argued it was without timeframe and he would have reacted if I said I was going to do that the next day, for example. So, I said I did book it because he never replied to me (I mentioned it on several occasions not just once) and I did not want him to think that I'm applying any pressure on him. I told him I booked because prices are going up and some hotels already sold out (so many months ahead!) but that I did it thinking that if he wanted to come along it's better to buy just one expensive ticket rather than 4. I asked if his reaction would be that I should book ticket for him too. He said he doesn't know. That he needs to think about it. But while discussing it, he almost cried and turned all red when he said that I did not even think about how difficult it must be for him thinking that we are all there and he cannot be there with "all" of us (including me?! Unbelievable!).
After he left, I forwarded him the booking to have all the elements for his thinking.
One other thing I don't understand: when we met, while dating and also during our marriage we had a thing with a combination of colors of his shirt and tie which I liked on him (really sexy). So, he would always make a point when wearing that. While I was sick and he came to cook dinner, the first thing he did when he arrived he took off his tie. Except for a few times when he wore this combination. He even cooked with it. I don't know what to think about that. Coincidence? He is also checking me out all the time. Which makes me really uncomfortable because though I have guys much younger than me telling me how great I look and nobody believes I'm in my 40s, every time my h looks at me I feel sooo unattractive... Makes me wanna put oversized clothes on me and hide.
Back to work tomorrow! And I hope I will start doing sports again this weekend. Really miss it and need it for my emotional balance.
As for his "executor" role. Well, I can understand how he can feel like that. However, it's one thing that I cannot do/don't want to do much about anymore. My H never did anything by himself. He was comfortable just doing his job and coming home to rest. Cat, I read somewhere that your h never helped enough for you to have time for yourself or something like that. It was the same for me. When kids were small he was coming back from work when they were already in bed and during the weekend it was his time to rest as he had "such a demanding job". Then I got back to work, had full time job just like him, with the same high responsibilities but he was not helping though he said he would, it was me who had to do everything. If I didn't, it simply didn't get done.
I probably did say something like that.
The truth in the situation, as I can see it now from a much more outward perspective, is that I had some responsibility in it as well. If I wanted time for myself, I should have taken it.
I tended to be an ultra responsible, get it done, kind of person. Some people call that controlling.
While I am still responsible and I can still get things done, I also recognize that I am not the only adult in the household.
My BF, is just as responsible and I am. He has days where he just needs to rest from work. If I have one of those days where I just needed time to do other stuff, like schoolwork or taking a bath, some things just don't get done.
In the past, that would have simply not been an option for me. I would have run myself ragged trying to do everything.
In stopping that behavior, I have created a situation that allows both of the adults in the household to feel like adults. Instead of one person feeling like a parent and the other person feel like a child.
I have also created a situation where I am happier and not exhausted and stressed out anymore.
A funny tidbit...as I still talk to X occasionally, after I moved out and he had to was taking care of all of the stuff I did...he told me that he realized that he should have helped out more. And he is capable of doing so.
Anyway...I had a good vacation, thank you for asking.
It sounds like things are going well for you...
"Acceptance doesn't mean resignation. It means understanding that something is what it is and there's got to be a way through it."--Michael J. Fox
As it turns out, h is not. He came today and we ended up having another 2 hours conversation (I don't know why I always let myself get into it). But it was quite a nice one, once I made it clear that he will not raise his voice, won't blackmail me anymore, insult me etc. which he started to do. And btw - it's definitely MLC! And nothing will make me doubt it after today.
Bee, sounds like you did a good job setting some boundaries. My w did all those things to me, mostly in the earlier days, and I wish I would've handled it better.
The clothes thing is strange, maybe he is looking for reassurance that he still looks good or wants to know you to still find him attractive to feel better about himself. Idk. Although the situation is reversed I have a similar thing with a shirt type /color I sometimes wear to see if w notices. Idk if she ever does or not.
Glad to hear you're able to return to work and sports!
I did not post on my thread for a while as I had a little "incident" and did not want my thread to be among the first ones on MLC topic. I needed some spelling help from h and he came behind me and stayed longer than needed. Then I realised that one of the tabs was DB site and since it shows the full web address I wanted to make sure he couldn't find my thread if he was curious to check... I really hope he did not. Not that I'm saying anything secret here but it would make me uncomfortable if he was reading it.
We had very eventful couple of days. I don't know what is happening with h. It's really confusing. The last couple of days, I felt really negative towards him but did not show it. Just deep inside, whenever he was supposed to come, I soooo didn't feel like seeing him. On Sat I even closed myself in my room and did not come out while he was here (true, I was extremely tired but it was not the only reason I stayed in bed). And this is the time when he always waits for me even if I come from work late, knowing that he cooks for the kids so it's ok. Before he would usually be gone by that time now he stays to talk to me. Nothing serious, just work and other neutral subjects. I always listen, sometimes tell him something about me but deep down I was really not enjoying it.
On Sun, it was a beautiful day and though it was not planned that he will come (agreement is he tells me at least a day before) he texts me to tell me that it's a beautiful day and to let him know when he can come to take kids out. I told him we had plans and that he can join if he wants. He did. We had really nice time. He talked to me a lot (and this time I enjoyed it). And then he, very carefully, brought up his wish to help me drive when I'm going to spend a week with kids in our apartment in what we call our home country (though both of us are from different countries, but we both love it, met there, s15 was born there, had our wedding there...). He said "if I'm ok with it". I am ok with it. We are always so relaxed and happy there, I mean the family as a whole. So I think it will be nice. Before he avoided going there because he thought I want to bring him there so we rekindle what we had (I have no desire to do so, he is not the person I married and loved and it will take time for him to come back if he ever does). He will not stay with us the entire week but he will come back to help driving back again. Not that I would really need it, I did that by myself many times before, plus I don't find it safe when he drives these days (yesterday he wanted to change lanes while there was a car next to us - with a very angry driver in it, but luckily the driver reacted fast and h also noticed so did not go all the way...). But I'm happy he offered and that he cares. It will not be easy for him, he has many trips planned for work and I know it's very tiring for him.
He also started to take care of things in the house more than before. Pays attention to things, e.g. on Sun he asked me if he should shop as I don't seem to have much in the fridge (went shopping after he came on Sat and it's true the fridge was empty - I have 2 hungry teenagers!). And he uses words that he was avoiding for so many months like "we". "Did we get mail?". Before it was "was there any new mail?". And today, I sent him an e-mail about something important to which he never replied but then in the evening he texts me to say "I'm home". Home! He is avoiding that word since March! He was saying it a few weeks after he moved out then stopped and only said "I'm with the kids" or something similar. I really don't understand!
I arrived home tonight and he was playing music on his phone and sang along. In a great mood entire time... Seriously not sure what to think about it. A short phase of clarity in his MLC world?
Cat, I agree with you and I told my h just a few weeks ago exactly the same thing. I told him that it's my fault that he was not helping more with kids and household.
I'm very happy you found the balance in your new relationship. Saying what I said above, I still believe that partly it also depends on the personality of the spouse. My h would always find (and still does) good reasons why he could not do something. And as I said before, there were things that did not get done for several months sometimes years. But I could have insisted more on at least those most important ones. Well, I cannot really change the past. But I definitely learnt from it.
It's good that your X realised all that. My h still does not. He still gets upset when he expects me to do something and I tell him that it's for him now. He thinks I do it out of spite (his words). At first I kept explaining it was not true, now I just smile and don't comment. He sometimes tries to manipulate me into doing it but it does not work with me anymore.
Kyh, I wish I could tell you that she does notice and maybe on good days she does but what do we know? And if they do notice, how do they feel about it, do they care? I guess we will never get answers to those questions...
I really felt done for now with h and was fine with it (after a lot of dancing at home on Pink's Blow me one last kiss - BTW, Esame, if you read this, I thought about you when you said you could not go for the run. Dancing on this song, singing - or rather screaming -along, can be as good as a few kilometers run - you just need to put it on repeat :-)).
Do they feel this? When this happened 2 years ago (we lived together that time), just as I was ready to end things and was preparing to tell him, he came and said we should try to make it work.
This time it's different but he's starting to open up. And I don't know how I feel about it. On one hand, I want to help him and given that no one knows him and his issues dating years back as I do, I think I am in a good position to help. But I'm not sure I should be doing it as very recently I was, according to him, the source of all those issues (even those from years before I met him...) and I am afraid that it's just too soon. I don't think he wants to come back, it's not about that, what I mean is that it's just too soon for the 2 of us to talk openly about his issues.
Another reason is that I can only help him if I'm honest and I'm not sure he's ready to hear and accept all I need to say in order to help him...
I could see this coming though. When I was sick and he was driving me around, every time I got in his car a song, I think it's called "Jubel", started. My h is very musical and uses music to express himself often. We used to leave in each other's cars songs to start when we start the engine. This song doesn't have many words but it repeats "save me". When it happened for the 3rd time, I started to think that it was not a coincidence but I let it be.
Then he started to do more stuff at home, to stay to talk to me etc. Yesterday, he did not come to see kids but he called me in the evening (which he never does). First he started with an attack telling me how unacceptable something I did was. I told him I'm not in a mood for such conversation and then he said that he just wanted to say he was sorry for what he did to me. That he's been trying to say that for some time now. That he now sees more than before what he was doing wrong in relation to me (even before his affairs) etc. He told me that it's not just 50% his (I said before that I was willing to accept my 50% for what went wrong in the marriage but will not accept to be blamed for his affairs and that it was his choice), that it was much higher percentage that he knows that. He said that he would like to talk at some point about what his expectations of the marriage were and why he then came to conclusion that it cannot work between us.
He also said he does not know how much of what he's doing he's doing because of his issues and what is real him. I can see he is confused and trying to figure himself out. He told me he was not ready to go and see anyone after the experience we had with the therapist. That it's really difficult for him. Said that he was reading what I gave him (a bit more than a year ago I sent him something on MLC and also recommended him to read a book called something like When good men behave badly, I think. I remember it was quite well written. When he read it for the first time, he told me that he understood why I wanted him to read it and that he wants to buy paperback and highlight stuff so he can go back to it. He never did. But maybe now rereading the electronic version.
I'm quite happy that he is reflecting on all this and started to realise that he needs to do something to help himself. But I'm not sure if I should be involved in it. I will definitely not start sending him things proactively. Will listen when he needs to talk about it. But I'm afraid to say something, even if directly asked, as I really think he's not ready...
Dig deeper for patience. He's waking up a bit and starting to realize that something is off. He'll not wake up completely for a while, but be a friend. listen to what he has to say, validate and be honest w/him if he should ask questions and/or opinions.
Don't try to fix him...he needs to do that and he will, but it's a very slow journey for him. He's very fragile at this time and you need to be just a friend for now.
Dig deeper for patience.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Bee thank you for stopping by my thread, and for the song recommendation. I will look it up.
I'm sorry it is such a confusing time for you (and your H), but at least he shows some signs of willingness to resolve his issues. I'm not saying that should be enough for you to forgive and forget, but it is a start. Maybe it will become easier as you get used to this new behaviour? It must be hard now, but maybe if you see him as a f fiend you will be able to help him (and you) better.
Sorry I have no better advice, I have no experienced what you are both going through.
(((Hugs)))
"There's nothing sadder than a conman conning himself"
“There is freedom waiting for you, On the breezes of the sky, And you ask "What if I fall?" Oh but my darling, What if you fly?”
Thank you Job! I will listen to your advice and will try to be a friend. It's not easy and I really do have a problem with being a friend under the circumstances. But he is much nicer now and I do want to help him, so I'll do my best!
Thank you Esame. Yes, I think it already is a bit easier with his new behavior. I just need to be careful not to get too much into it again. If I do, I know I would get hurt. So, as Job says digging deep for patience and I will try my best to be a friend but to keep detached as much as possible.
Off to holidays now (with h helping to drive there and back).
Hi Bee, thanks for stopping by my thread again. I don't have much for advice but just wanted to say I'm right there with you, digging for patience, trying to be a friend to someone who isn't being a good friend back, and trying to keep expectations at zero.
