Hi Job, I finally was able to dig up your post about childhood trauma etc. and while I think that might shape how someone deals with any sort of stress throughout life on a regular basis, I don't see why it would suddenly cause them to go into mlc.
I did give my husband's running away persona a bit more thought and I have another theory about it. At least lately, he tells me I can have a divorce if I want one more often than not when I am expressing my dissatisfaction with the situation. He doesn't want to hear me say that and maybe part of him really wants to divorce me at that moment because he thinks it will get him away from the guilt trip he feels I am laying on him, but also he KNOWS once he starts talking about divorce, I WILL adamantly tell him I don't want one. And maybe that is actually what he wants to hear from me, that I accept him and will continue with him and not leave him. I say that because the one and only time in all the years we have been married (just a couple months ago) that I actually said I wanted a divorce he exploded so angry saying he was ready to do a long list of crazy things to stop me, that I just broke down crying and told him I will never do that again as it was like nothing I had ever seen from him before and I could tell it was too painful for him to even hear me suggest it. I think he wants to stay with me and keep me but he just can't face me being unhappy. So I think maybe the running away is not because he wants to get away from me, but rather that he wants to shut down my criticism and instead for me to give him reassurance that all is ok. As I said it is a pattern we fell into from the beginning of our marriage and maybe it actually brings him comfort that we do it.
I had to do just a wee bit of reading up on the type of situation that you are in. Since he's already got someone in mind for a second wife, is it possible that he's trying to create unrest between you, as the senior wife, and the soon to be second wife? Would you be looked upon in the role as "mother" over this new bride? Could it be that he wants to make things so difficult for you to justify his living w/the second wife when the time comes? Has he stated whether both wives would live under the same roof?
One last thought...is it possible that someone in authority has suggested that he take on additional wives after all of this time? If I'm intruding, please know it's not intentional, but I'm trying to better understand your situation.
Also, if you can obtain copies of the following books, they may help you too. They are written by Jed Diamond and they are excellent. They are:
"Surviving Male Menopause: A Guide for Women and Men"
"The Irritable Male Syndrome"
They just might answer some of your questions about the physical changes as well as mental ones.
I am just about finished reading "Surviving Male Menopause" by Jed Diamond. I wanted put some quotes here for all to read.
15 Things you can do to help once male menopause is recognized There is no magic formula that works for everyone.
1.Recognize the similarities and differences between male and female menopause. 2.Have patience, din't give up when things become difficult 3.Be gentle and kind with yourself and your man. 4. Recognize that this is probably the most difficult and confusing time of life for both of you. 5.Take good care of yourself. Attend to your own needs and feel good on seven levels - hormonally,physically,emotionally,interpersonally, sexually,socially, and spiritually. 6. Accept that he will be resistant at first to the concept of male menopause. 7. He likely will be concerned at first with one or two aspects of male menopause. 8. Listen to his concerns. It is tempting to want him to do something. Remember the first step to action is acknowledging there is a problem. 9.Keep Listening 10.Reassure him that you love him and the 2 of you will get through this together. 11.Let him know that although you understand that this is difficult you will not stand by and allow yourself to be abused by his words or actions. 12. Seek support together. Books can be useful. 13.Men are resistant to taking advice from women. Sometimes getting another man, a friend or colleague involved can be helpful. 14. Talk to him about what you see and feel. Particularly emphasize the positive things. 15.Seek professional counseling.
8 Things You Should Not Do
1. Don't ignore the changes that occur at this time of life. Male menopause is as natural as puberty and as impossible to ignore. 2.Don't Panic. Your wonderful man has not turned into a monster, although like his adolescent counterpart, it may seem like he has. 3.Don't Blame yourself. 4. Don't be afraid to talk to others. 5. Don't laugh at your man or ridicule his behavior. Men's greatest fear at this stage of life is that they are acting like fools. Love and supprot him even if his behavior is hard to take. 6.Don't let him make you the brunt of his anger. 7.Don't give up on yourself or the R. If its worth keeping, its worth fighting for. 8. Don't try too hard to make his life better. Ultimately, this is his change of of life and he must navigate it for himself.
I thought that this is great advice for both men and women. I really want to recommend these books, and yes there are a few things in this list that contradict what we do here in MLC but overall it is really a good read.
I just think of the story of Robin Williams that has been in the news the last few days. He had a physical illness with a known cause that was mainly manifested in abnormal behavior and mental ways, to the point it drove him to suicide. His wife wrote this very moving piece about it recently: http://www.neurology.org/content/87/13/1308.full
Even though they couldn't cure him, you have to wonder how much the fact that his wife knew something was physically wrong with him (even though he was misdiagnosed before his death) as opposed to the idea that a midlife crisis is just a "psychological" problem influences the spouse's attitude and acceptance of the condition.
I just think it is entirely possible there is some other physical cause for the more typical midlife crisis if scientists just looked for it. But if you knew that was the reason for your spouse's midlife crisis, wouldn't that at least make you approach it all a bit differently and show more compassion and understanding and patience? Or feel less hurt and less likely to place blame on him or her? Even without any treatment, I think just knowing why it happens would be a big help.
Thank you for the links 2Lady. I understand where you are getting at
There is a doctor in the US (his name escapes me at the moment - (am having my own dementia moment here but will post on finding) Anyway, his approach to health is mind-body. He makes connections re ailments in the body to 'mental health' issues or human behaviour.
I did write in my earlier response that it may be both scenarios - & that it is 'too early in our overall findings to really discount anything,' including the findings here at the forum.
I really don't know anything of sure but Im just giving you my take on it. I have worked among dementia patients (just one year) & noted that both your articles related to dementias - one was early onset, the other lewy bodies.
How illness manifest in people is often varied as you know. In the case of dementia patients, it WILL manifest itself through memory eventually. Unstable behaviours are very 'global' concerning characteristics, esp. in the beginning. As a result, the common characteristics make it difficult to identify the problem.
We don't fully understand how many behaviours develop & mature. Where do these behaviours 'come' from? Or why are these behaviour(s) the way they are, esp. in the initial stages. On top of it all, the 'beginnings' of a behaviour can be a few months to one a year - and more! Making the 'concept of beginning' a joke! It is all so versatile.
With dementia - PET scans, Mri & other brain imaging techniques can confirm the diagnosis (most times anyway - but imaging technology is improving, & earlier is always better). In any event, at the 'end of the day' all dementias will present themselves 'as dementia' - it WILL show in the scan. Brain mass will be decreased among other visual data - & sadly, so too will memories of a life once lived. BUT It's there in the imaging!
Many of the threads you get to read here - including homework sent from Cadet will outline the experiences and outcomes of the DB posters. Within the many experiences of forum members, there are also 'template' behaviours (on both sides btw - mlc & lbs of that matter). This is indicative of certain causes, and consequently certain effects, so the behavioural patterns are what the vets go by.
The MLC- ers seem to return to less raging behaviour (tunnel analogy) with TIME. They change over TIME Some even re-marry in TIME ! They do not necessarily lose memory with TIME (as in dementia cases).
Some memory loss is expected with age (early onset are exceptions) ... MCI/Mild Cognitive Impairment can be expected in some cases. And why not? The brain has been working from birth & like all things it begins to get tired.
Eventually though, the 'defining red flag' re dementia is often context. We forget, but when we do not recognize that a coffee mug is a coffee mug, or you don't poor the coffee into a planter to drink it, something's up. Forgetful ppl. (including mlc-ers) still understand the world, still understand context.
Having said that, there are ALWAYS exceptions to the rule. This is a whole other area & too much to get into (dementia does not start with context issues, and context is not 'guarantee signal'. Also, plaques & tangles, the typical hallmarks re alzheimer's, showed up in a patient who did not behave like an alzheimers patient! The patient did have fair amt. of brain mass, so it seems that was a factor. Research is ongoing. And of course, early detection & follow up is key to rule out that possibility. ) Again, this is for another conversation!
There is memory loss that is associated with MLC at times, but imho this is definitely NOT dementia as we know it (I am simply alluding to what I was exposed to while working in the field of dementia years ago.
If a brain is raging - there are a flood of chemicals associated with that raging as you know. The individual's behaviour is running on emotional fuel - & the fuel is rage. Memory isn't stable b/c (typical) memories are not really being made in this state anyway. It is HAVOC. 'Whatever' happens happens! 'Info'. haphazardly pops in at any moment while something else get shoved out, bumped into, fuses ...whatever, whatever whatever! Some of the whatever may /may not 'remain - but one thing is 'clear,' havoc rules.
In TIME, the rage once observed in the beginning of the mlc, decreases. The mlc-er still knows daughter, son & will for years unless diagnosis reveals a dementia.
I will try (!!) to locate the name of the doctor who connects behaviour with physical imbalances soon!! Its been a while & I remember noting it at the time. The question is where (!!) did I put it
The case you make is valid - there is no doubt that these imbalances & various dementias can impact in a way to mislead us. However, I mentioned commonalities re behaviour here at the forum - and that is no coincidence. When you get through the threads you will see what i mean - its uncanny! Some of what I read &/or felt was similar re the other posters.
Great question/subject. Sorry about rambling on like this . Have a great day, p.
pbetra ---- M: 15 yrs (in 2014) BD: 6/03/2014 Infidelity ('known' from July 2014) Denied PA Feb 2015 2 leave Mar 2015 (left early Summer). Some contact. Back briefly 2017 (after family death) Separated 2017
Living arrangements have all been agreed upon. In fact, I set the conditions about that and he accepted my wishes (which were also what I thought would be best for him although he had his doubts especially because he thought it would be hard to find someone to agree) and the other wife did too. So from my perspective I've got what I want in that regard.
He's a man who thinks for himself and no one could have pressured him one way or another to do it. He chose her himself and he said he wanted to find someone that could get along with me. She and I have not met in person yet but we have talked on the phone and I felt really comfortable with her, although I am not sure she felt as comfortable as I did from what he told me. But maybe that is because I feel more assured in our relationship at this point than her.
No, I will not be a mother figure to her. If our mother-in-law wants to play that role, she is welcome to it. Our hope is to be friends.
There's no ulterior motives here. He had his reasons, I know what they are and the most important one was something that I felt would be beneficial to myself as well, which is a big part of why I agreed.
We have always been best friends and he's (sometimes too) honest with me and trusts me more than anyone, but that is perhaps part of the problem. He doesn't feel he can be honest with her nor really trusts her yet, so maybe he thinks I am the one who he can rely on to be more flexible at this time. On the other hand, I think part of the difficulty is that he is used to having me to talk to about any issues in his life but it's a bit difficult to do so when they involve the other wife and I am also his wife. A few times when he complained about things to me about her if I agreed with his complaints he suddenly would get annoyed at me and I think felt guilty and would shut up. He still relies on me for non-marriage advice though and that is one of the strengths of our relationship and so that is on solid ground.
I don't think he is trying intentionally to make things difficult for me. If I could use one word to describe him since this all started, it would be "terrified." The main factor in him wanting to take another wife was related to fear. He was was then terrified he wouldn't find someone who would agree to be a second wife for a variety of reasons, some that were about me and some about himself. Once he found someone, he agreed to some conditions that are unfair to me "to get her to agree." When I asked him I see him look in the mirror and look distressed about what he sees. Now he is terrified he can't handle two wives. The first time he expressed that fear to me I saw a look in his eyes I have never seen before as the reality of what he was doing suddenly hit him and he exclaimed, "How can I do this? I can't I can't" and literally ran out of the room in distress. Believe me, this is not someone who is doing anything out of cold calculated troublemaking. He's just reacting to his fear.
I'm trying to do my best to reassure him that he can handle it, giving him positive reinforcement and remaining cheerful when he makes an effort with me so that he knows it is appreciated. I slip up though when HE raises relationship issues. As much as I would love to discuss it and it would be incredibly beneficial if we did, I know he is not ready at all, but sometimes he opens the topic and it doesn't really go so well. Either he claims he is tired and ends the call abruptly, or last time I told him I finally said look, I don't want to discuss our marriage I just want to live it, let's agree that if the other person starts a discussion like this the other hang up on them and he agreed to that. He also said at the end of that call that it's hard for him to believe words and he wants to see actions, meaning he is worried we will both make trouble and more me because he knows it is harder for him to control me than her, and I told him I understand and agreed. I think once he is living with both of us then this will hopefully be resolved, because at least he will see my intentions toward her are good in action.
He originally didn't even want us to talk to eachother, again because I think he was afraid one of us would sabotage everything, but I had been telling him I wanted to for some time and when she told him the same, he said, "I don't really like the idea" and I asked why and he said, "It's just weird," but he agreed for us to talk to one another on the phone alone. In fact, by the end of the call she receded to the back of my mind because I felt ok with her and I said to myself the real challenge I need to deal with is my husband. Although my first priority will be to make her feel welcome. I'm not going to trust her without evidence I can but I plan to be as gracious and nice as possible. Even if he isn't going to start things off right I will do so and hopefully this will make him and her come around.
Well I don't think dementia is a factor in MLC but I definitely have seen memory issues. But when you say one thing one day and the opposite the next, hey, then there really has to be something wrong with your memory!
Oh and another important thing, when other wife and I talked, we both agreed that he is really scared about having two wives. So obviously she is seeing the fear in him too. He can't hide it.
Wait until he says one thing and the next minute changes it all over again. Memory tends to weaken during MLC and that's because of the depression. How is his concentration? They can't handle long talks or texts/emails because their attention span is that of a gnat.
I think you've provided a safe place for him to land, but what are you doing for yourself? You can't fix him because you didn't break him. He's got a lot of work to do on his own and like you've been doing, i.e., providing a safe place for him to land. Continue to be a friend and if he asks for you opinion, then give it to him, but otherwise, I'd give him as much space as possible.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Just little things (apart from accusations) h used to enjoy movies or a good doc. After a while, it just couldn't 'hold him.' there was so much restlessness. Attention was diminished.
Tired souls with no energy for focused attention (other than what they need to feel better).
Take care, p.
pbetra ---- M: 15 yrs (in 2014) BD: 6/03/2014 Infidelity ('known' from July 2014) Denied PA Feb 2015 2 leave Mar 2015 (left early Summer). Some contact. Back briefly 2017 (after family death) Separated 2017
but will post on finding) Anyway, his approach to health is mind-body. He makes connections re ailments in the body to 'mental health' issues or human behaviour.
but Im just giving you my take on it. I have worked among dementia patients (just one year) & noted that 
Forgetful ppl. (including mlc-ers) still 
noting it at the time. The question is 
.