From what I have read, I understand that the MLCer starts to face his "issues" during the depression phase. What I wondering about is what are these issues? Are they the issues that precipitated the MLC in the first place or the new ones created by the MLC, or both?
And in your experience, was there some sort of spark that pushed him/her over the edge into depression? What was it?
I notice that most people on here seem to date things from BD. But by the time of bomb drop, it is likely the husband is already in the replay stage. They say mlc takes 2-7 years to run its course, but looking back, how long would you say the spouse was in the Denial and Anger stages? Are people normally including those when they talk about 2-7 years or does 2-7 years start with BD?
Last edited by job; 10/04/1607:40 AM. Reason: Merged threads
Welcome to the MLC Forum. I'm sorry you are here, but we've got a lot of wonderful people posting here who will be happy to come by and visit w/you, i.e., support you, give advice and/or opinions, as well as just to talk about life in general. So, I'm going to paste Cadet's Welcome Posting here for you to begin some brand new homework. Read as much as you can about MLC and depression and if you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask them.
Here's Cadet's Welcome Posting: OK so that means MORE homework.
Keep this to yourself. DO NOT share this book or this site at all with your spouse. It is your playbook and not to be shared with the "opposing" team.
It is important to clear the search/browsing history from your computer on a daily basis to prevent the possibility for your WAS to stumble on the DB site and discover your posts here on DB. Erasing the search history will protect your posts and you as well.
Sorry you are here but you will meet some wonderful people here and get some great advice.
You may be on moderation now, post in small frequent replies and stay on this thread until you reach 100 posts (for your thread, you can also post on other peoples threads to give support)
I have read a good deal of books on the subject and can give you some suggestions when you are ready.
Take the parts of this advice that you need and don't worry if I have repeated something that you have already done.
I will give you a bunch of homework assignments to read.
This POST is under reconstruction and we will be working on this as time goes by, this is the most current version.
Now you have all the tools to read. Let us know how your doing and if you have any questions.
I suggest that you read the entire thread in the resources. You can also pick out some people and read their whole story.
Depression is the key to the whole thing and it is always present!
Believe none of what he/she says and 50% of what he/she does.
I would not ask him/her anything unless you can have no expectations. Sometimes asking them questions will be thought of as pressure. You do not want to do anything that can be thought of by your H/W as controlling or pressure.
Lets not worry about him/her. Lets work on you! Start your homework assignments. Something to DO while you are on moderation. GAL. Eat, sleep, exercise and take a deep breath. In general take care of your self first.
Detach the single most important thing to DO.
Your H/W has given you a gift THE GIFT OF TIME use it wisely
Knowledge is Power - Sir Francis Bacon
_________________________ Me-62, D30,S28
I will try to answer your questions for you.
Depression is the main ingredient of MLC. However, there is a very deep, dark depression that will take place within the crisis that will be a bit more extreme than what you will see in the beginning. They may even withdraw more so during that period of time.
During the entire crisis, they are facing their issues. They go back to the time when they were emotionally stunted. The issues could be not being recognized for their accomplishments, abuse of any kind, parents have a golden child who can do no wrong, but continually criticize the crisis adult as a child, abandonment at that age, bullying and the list could go on and on...just as the individual is unique, so are their issues as well as how they deal (or don't deal) w/their crisis. They need to return to that period time to face, those issues, accept that they weren't at fault, possibly facing the authority figure (mom, dad, family member, priest, minister, teacher, etc.) and discussing it w/them. Sometimes, that person has died and then the MLCer will have a difficult time facing the issues, but w/the help of a professional, they can do it...but they have to decide whether or not to do so.
The issues are not generated in the MLC. They are stuffed down feelings of many years ago and they are what bubble up to the surface when something triggers the crisis. They are already within that person, just waiting to bubble up. The feelings that he/she has for the spouse are then stuffed way down into the soul and he/she can have moments of clarity, but those loving feelings will be in their soul until the crisis ends. Some make it thru the crisis and others remain stuck.
What took place 18-24 months prior to the bomb drop? Did your spouse get a promotion, lose his job, birth of a child, death of a family member, friend or oo-worker, serious illness for him or you? You are the only one that can determine what happened during that time frame...
Continue to post, but be sure to read the DB and DR books. They will help you as well as visiting around the forum. The more knowledge you have about MLC and depression, the better.
Sit quietly, the answers will reveal themselves when you least expect them to. The past is gone, the present is a gift and you need to focus on today, allow the future to reveal itself when it is ready.
Since you are a newbie, I wanted to share this with you...I have merged your two threads together. The policy around here is to stick to one thread until you have reached 100 postings/replies. Also, you can change your subject line at any time within the thread.
2Lady,
Okay, first, let's talk about the stages. They do not go in a linear order. The MLCer can bounce back and forth throughout all of the stages until they have almost completed acceptance and start truly waking up. So, they can exhibit denial, anger, replay, depression and withdrawal bouncing back and forth. As I pointed out, there is a very deep depression that takes place when replay is beginning to wind down which is a bit more severe than the depression they start out with. The crisis will take as long as it takes. It has been proven by many of the MLCers that we discuss on this forum, that it can take longer than 2-7 years. Some take 8, 20 and even longer and then there are some that are shorter. Some remain stuck. Each person is unique, just as their personalities and the crisis journey that each of them will travel. No one can predict how long or how short this journey will be. It is up to the MLCer.
Most people do not realize that their spouses are in MLC until the BD occurs. Sure, we see signs of dissatisfaction, some depression and they tend to be very subtle w/making changes to themselves, but to us, it was very, very subtle and we don't pay that much to attention to it until the BD. Then we begin to realize that something is very seriously wrong and we panic, pursue, argue, try to rationalize w/them. Once the crisis begins, it's best to let it run its course. If you attempt to snap them out of it and you happen to succeed, they will go back into crisis at a later time and pick up right where they left off...but this time, the crisis will be far worse.
I've provided Cadet's homework. I think that if you start reading the homework and visiting the threads, you'll see that there is a wealth of info out there for you to read and educate yourself. Knowledge is power.
From what I have read, I understand that the MLCer starts to face his "issues" during the depression phase. What I wondering about is what are these issues? Are they the issues that precipitated the MLC in the first place or the new ones created by the MLC, or both?
And in your experience, was there some sort of spark that pushed him/her over the edge into depression? What was it?
IMHO the issues are unique to each person.
Depending on when the childhood wounding occurs that creates stages of development that did not occur as a child. This can then manifest itself later in life to deeper issues.
Spark - yes there is usually a trigger event that kicks off MLC, death, empty nest, illness, that starts the perfect storm of events that propel into MLC.
I'm not convinced it necessarily has anything to do with childhood issues. This all sounds like a very Freudian interpretation, and while I recognize that might be the case for some. I think it is also possible it has everything to do with adult issues.
I'm not convinced it necessarily has anything to do with childhood issues. This all sounds like a very Freudian interpretation, and while I recognize that might be the case for some. I think it is also possible it has everything to do with adult issues.
This is why each person is unique. Erichson's stages of childhood development go from birth to death.
During the entire crisis, they are facing their issues. They go back to the time when they were emotionally stunted. The issues could be not being recognized for their accomplishments, abuse of any kind, parents have a golden child who can do no wrong, but continually criticize the crisis adult as a child, abandonment at that age, bullying and the list could go on and on...just as the individual is unique, so are their issues as well as how they deal (or don't deal) w/their crisis. They need to return to that period time to face, those issues, accept that they weren't at fault, possibly facing the authority figure (mom, dad, family member, priest, minister, teacher, etc.) and discussing it w/them. Sometimes, that person has died and then the MLCer will have a difficult time facing the issues, but w/the help of a professional, they can do it...but they have to decide whether or not to do so.
The issues are not generated in the MLC. They are stuffed down feelings of many years ago and they are what bubble up to the surface when something triggers the crisis. They are already within that person, just waiting to bubble up. The feelings that he/she has for the spouse are then stuffed way down into the soul and he/she can have moments of clarity, but those loving feelings will be in their soul until the crisis ends. Some make it thru the crisis and others remain stuck.
I'm referring to what Cadet wrote above. I'm just wondering why it necessarily is that some sort of childhood issues would precipitate a midlife crisis, when there may actually be present issues in their life of an adult nature that they simply snap about at some point. It just seems to me to be making excuses to blame it on childhood rather than face up to the reality of their life immediately before mlc.
I have copied your posting form the Newcomers' Forum so that others who read your thread here will have some background.
"Sara and Cherry, this is my first post here but I think you two might be able to help me out. Not necessarily from your own personal experience, but maybe you have friends or family that have been through what I am going through that you can provide some insight on my situation.
Like you I am Muslim, but my husband and I live in a Muslim country. He wanted to take another wife, for reasons that we both believed would benefit us both, so I agreed. We have been married many years and had a good relationship and it was even stronger right after we had some hard discussions and agreed on polygamy than it had ever been. The trust, and honesty, and understanding were better than ever between us. That gave me a positive feeling about the whoel thing.
He had no particular girl in mind before this of that I am absolutely certain so it was not like he fell in love with someone and THEN asked for polygamy. It was intended as a practical matter, and he even sought my input on choosing someone.
He didn't think he could find someone easily who would agree easily and once he did he made her some promises that are not in keeping with how a man is supposed to practice polygamy (at least in the beginning) as stated in the Quran in order to get her to agree to it. Add to that how they say the second wife always finds out that 90% of what the husband says about the first is a lie, such a situation is ripe for trouble. Although she hasn't had the opportunity to find out those things yet.
He has signed the marriage contract with her but they aren't living together yet and we are currently temporarily apart for unrelated reasons but will all be back together in a couple months. At first I was willing to play along with the promises he made to her (because he has and continues to tell me that it is temporary although he hasn't set anything but a vague timeline), and I think I would if both of them were committed to fairness, but neither one is. I want for her what I have, but she is self-admittedly "jealous" and although she claims to know I have equal rights, she doesn't want to give them to me (this according to him). I realized though this simply does not my needs and I told him so. Under such circumstances, I told him really I want nothing more than him to be fair. If no one wants to give me my rights to begin with, as I see it, I have nothing to give up. If I knew they were on the same page with me, I really would be happy to do so though, but they aren't.
Now, it was only some time after we agreed to the polygamy that I came to the realization that this was all part of a bigger midlife crisis on his part. I could recognize the first two stages going back two years, but I knew nothing about midlife crises until a few months ago. He's obviously starting replay now and it is very similar to what you would expect if a man were having an extramarital affair in terms of his behavior the statements he makes, his feelings, etc etc, although this not an affair, this is two legitimate marriages with two wives that hope it will last for life.
I've read so much about midlife crisis and so much about polygamy, but there simply is nothing out there about the two together. I've learned to anticipate his behavior and a lot of the advice out there about midlife crises is invaluable.
He has some self awareness and has basically said he knows he will get bored with her and she with him and then everything will settle down in an Islamic way. He realizes the fantasy will come to and end but he still is caught up in enjoying the moment. He has told me I can have a divorce if I can't handle the situation but I have told him no I don't want one. He also tells me he will keep me forever if I want and our relationship will stay the same in spite of the other marriage. I've told him I don't want a divorce and while I reassure him from my perspective I don't want it to change except in ways that will be improvements.
But I am looking ahead and wondering: What happens next? What happens when he gets to the depression, withdrawal stages? Or are we stuck in perpetual replay? It's not like affairs where the husband has to make a choice, wife or affair partner, the goal here is for us both to stay with him forever, so what can I expect? I can envision what will trigger the depression stage (it will either probably come very quickly when he has to face the actual physical reality of having two wives, which I can tell he has been nearly entirely in denial about except for brief moments of sheer terror at the idea, or when he finally breaks his promises to her) and what sort of issues he might raise with me during that, but I'm really stumped as to how it might play out considering that he isn't supposed to choose between us, although that is always a possibility.
Obviously the two of you are in situations where your husbands are having unwelcome affairs. But I am sure there are lots of husbands who actually get into polygamy as a result of a midlife crisis, and I am just wondering if you know others who were in this situation. Or even others who had a situation where the wife accepted an arrangement with the mistress or even a polyamory situation.
My goal in all this is to get through this difficult period and have a better marriage as a result of all of it. I'm making some changes of my own to make me a better wife and person. I've told him I am there for him and he can do what he needs to do (because the midlife spouse can't be swayed otherwise so what choice do I have).
I do think we can survive this because even though he has a personality that acts like he wants to run away a lot, it's all talk and there was only one time I have ever told him I wanted a divorce in all the many years we have been together, his reaction was a sudden outburst of crazy ideas in an attempt to stop me that I immediately apologized for having even suggested it because I could see how it was just too much for him to handle.
So I guess really I am not here looking to stop a divorce but just for some advice how to make this thing work and for all 3 of us to thrive as a result. A bit unusual I know, but that's the life we have chosen and I sincerely want us all to be happy."
