WAS or what 7

[roist]

good morning bro.

sorry so quiet, have had virtually no time to sit and type

when i read your post the other day i had lots of thoughts about what it meant to let go and what does giving up on this really look like.

I reread your post again this morning. something jumped out and maybe want to talk about that instead.

you highlighted a statement from your wife saying you are not alone in this. I am curious (because I have been guilty of this in the past) of how closed off from your wife you have really been, not just now but throughout your marriage.

how often have you just plowed through a task when it could have been easier to ask for help...when asking wasn't even an option in your head.

how often have you just gone and did something because you just felt it needed to be done, didn't wait and had wife say something like, oh I was going to do that or fix that or whatever.

how often have you held back your feelings from her, as opposed avoid a conflict or in order to not make a big deal about something.

these are just a few examples, but they show a pattern of you building an emotional wall up between you and your wife. we talk her all the time about the walk away spouse feeling hopeless and alone in the marriage for years and finally they build the walls.

when two people have these impediments and hold themselves back from more harm, there is little hope without a physical separation for this interaction to change, right.

so how does this ever change? well I'm glad u asked

one person has to make themselves vulnerable and start to open up, start to welcome intimacy otherwise the other will never try anymore, because they feel they've already tried all they could and all they will ever see is the stone wall, the unresponsiveness, the closed off attitude, the one or two word responses. They see us as unapproachable and MUCH THE SAME as it has always been. It just reinforces the ‘things (he) will never change’ sentiment that likely started the detachment for the WAS.

the fact that your wife opened up just a crack and told you roiste, you are not alone, that made me cry. not because of how alone you have felt all this time. no, that is something different, no...because your wife showed you a little bit of openness and honesty in an effort to connect with you / work with you / share with you. Maybe you could find a way to do the same, with asking for help or doing something together that you would have historically just done by yourself. We are building something new here, maybe try something different...can you do that?

It may have felt like a criticism of your behavior. It may have come off as a complaint. Did you feel angry when she said that to you? IMHO, Anger in this case would be a response of score keeping on your side. Maybe it is frustration or whatever. Those are your feelings and you should acknowledge them and allow yourself to feel them, right…just not control your actions unless it is constructive.

This is my take on this and yes there is some mind reading going on, and as always I could be way off base

The second piece that struck me was your comment that you don’t even know if you love her. This is something only you will ever be able to know. Maybe you could work it out by describing what you think love is, and how that differs from how you feel about her…or maybe even by describing what you think is missing in your feelings for her, for it not to constitute as love. I don’t know that you need to post this stuff back to us all, maybe as an exercise with yourself to help work out your feelings…or maybe a trip to the IC to help sort this out (This is exactly the kind of stuff I work out with my IC). It is very personal. Very deep stuff that I would not blame you if you needed to keep offline.

I do think that is something worth looking at, is it that you don’t feel IN LOVE where or you just don’t hold any feelings at all? I think this is something that the WAS deals with for a long time, emptiness…lack of longing or desire…lack of satisfaction with a relationship…lack of fulfillment, where finally they decide that they are no longer in love. If this is how you feel, and you are entitled to your feelings it might be worth looking at the why, and what you want to do about it. Is your wife losing you...are you ready to be done...is she actually ready to hear you. i don't think she is done 'cooking' but she is starting to look at things a little different than before. if now you start to push for more, she very well will get defensive and withdraw.

Ok, so I’ve gone on and on again and I have to get back to work

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so honestly i typed this a few days ago and it felt awkward. i have not had a chance to smooth it out. I do think there are two thoughts in there and i don't think they are necessarily contradicting themselves, i think both thoughts are worth looking at.

My biggest take-away from this...that i never got around to was that your focus on you needs to intensify. you finding a way to meet your own needs of companionship and fun should be a focus for you. i know you've gone out for beers a couple of times, what else have you been doing to work on forging, growing interpersonal relationships outside of the house and workplace...have you been making new friends or improving existing ones?

Again sorry for the lack of continuity in the thoughts....this was typed over multiple days when i had a few moments of alone / quiet time. (school started last week so schedules are extra full).

(((Roiste)))

Z,

Yes we both have walls up. I had dismantled mine and was for the first time in years fully willing and able and motivated to discus and share my thoughts and feelings. However over time new ones have gone up. But these are just a screen. They are present if the person in front if me is not willing/able to be open with me. It is not resentment or spite that holds these screens in place but the reluctance to keep headbutting a wall of someone who is not available. Communication and connection takes two, otherwise it is not affective.

I have read loads on this topic and agree one of us has to take the first step. The first fifty steps even! I am willing to do that but won't force it. Firstly forcing will just reenforce her walls and secondly I now have a better opinion of myself to waste my effort.

That being said, I did start certain behaviours to show (me as much as W) that I was/am capable of managing without her help. I am mindful of this and try to balance how I do this. I don't need my Ws help most it the time, but at other tines I admit I don't want it. I will reflect on this and determine if I can tweak it.

W does often ask for my help, sometimes I feel unnecessarily as she could easily have managed alone. And I oblige, most times although if I am in the middle of something I no longer drop it instantly.

Yes those loner behaviours ring a bell with me. I will review this and determine if I can act differently.

From now on I will post exclusively in my new thread so please ask questions/reply over there. I may copy this reply over too.

Best wishes