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#270509 05/24/04 03:19 PM
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KAW,

my opinion for what it's worth, CAW is probably just going to keep putting that letter at the top of the pile waiting for you to say something about it..even if to ask what is this folded piece of paper that always finds it's way to the top of the pile.

Maybe she is unsure of what it is she wants to do but playing it this way is getting neither of you anywhere. Sure bringing it up means actions may be taken sooner..but sometimes action is what is needed. We never really want our spouses to move out as it starts to feel to real...but in some cases it is not until a seperation occurs that the fence sitting (even those that think they've made up their mind that they don't want to be with us) spouse realizes just how significant their partner is to them.

{{{{{KAW}}}}}}

LL

#270510 05/24/04 03:54 PM
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Hi KAW,

Could you move it to the refrigerator or someplace she looks once a day if not more? Or hide it? Or let it blow out the window onto her windshield.

If you sleep in the same bed, put it under her pillow. Do you want CAW to bring it up? How long will you wait? I keep visualizing you 20 years from now and the piece of paper still there and CAW still waiting for you to read it.

Have you looked at the letter lately? Just wondering, maybe she wrote a new one.

I'm rambling...

Cathy

#270511 05/24/04 04:27 PM
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Hey KAW,

I think I'm going to finally cast a vote here, and head down the path with 2Tim. I smell a rat and it's of the passive-aggressive variety. Maybe because I know all too well how those types operate.

IF this were a P/A action, I can promise you that giving in to the game will terminate it immediately. Consider it your "go directly to jail" card. If you tell her you've found it and read it, instead of her feeling relief, she is going to get angry instead....

Blaming you for snooping and not respecting her privacy. And then you'll be accused of a whole new laundry list of sins.

I have to award you an Oscar for continuing to act AS IF you had not read the letter. Since she didn't give it to you to read, I think it's best to pretend that it doesn't exist. And keep focusing on the things that have and do work for you two.

My two cents worth... which may not be much.

Hugs to you,

Betsey


"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."

Albert Einstein
#270512 05/24/04 04:27 PM
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I'm with Cathy. How can you turn "her move" to your advantage? It is your move, and you can't keep passing forever.

Do you want her to start a conv about the letter - move it so she knows you put it there.
Do you want to start a conv about the letter? Either bring it up yourself, or take the letter and hand it to her when appropriate.
Do you want the whole thing to "blow over" - clean up the pile of stuff the letter is buried under/on top of and make sure the letter is visible inside a trash can. - this one is risky if W may interpret this action as discarding her, and not just the letter.

Or draft your own letter, journaling your thoughts and goals - NOT A RESPONSE/DEFENSE to her letter - and fold it inside of her letter.

Life is a game, we either play or watch - I choose to play.

plk

#270513 05/25/04 03:10 AM
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First of all: ((((KAW))) Love ya, dude!

Secondly, I just want to reiterate what someone else said: smile and bring home big empty boxes.

Separation isn't necessarily a bad thing. It wasn't in my case. He seemed to need to lose what he had in order to miss it and appreciate it.

#270514 05/25/04 02:40 PM
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KAW....((((((HUGS))))) to you.

You have been so helpful and encouraging in my sitch. I would at least like to offer some support to you. Are are dealing with a tough situation. I almost like the idea of bringing home empty boxes, as something in your R has to shift. It did in mine....I didn't want it to. I was more uncomfortable prior to h leaving the house. You probably remember, cuz you were very supportive at that time (end of Feb).....Anyway after h left, I was immediately relieved, to my surprise. No longer walking on eggshells, worrying about his mood, analyzing every behaviour.
It was hard, but yet it gave me independence and strength in a wierd sort of way. I surrounded myself with supportive people...from my church and close friends. I kept busy...took good care of me. HUGE!

Left H alone....let him make contact. He needed his space...and to figure out his sitch. To this day I do not know if OW has been involved since last summer. It's not about "us" at all. The WAS need to focus on them. So that's where even more patience comes to play on your part.

That's what has been working for me. I'm not saying there weren't hard moments, and pain....but as I grew stronger, built up my life some....H took notice. Now he is on the pursuit, as you know. DBing works, even in a separation.

Just some thoughts based on my recent experience. None of us know what the future holds, but we do know we can only depend on ourselves and of course God.

Take care m'friend.

Mooka

#270515 05/25/04 06:18 PM
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Sending you a hug my friend.

Once again, thoughts of you keep me on track!

Hugs.


PIB
#270516 05/26/04 04:53 AM
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Talk about forks in the road? It seems the advise here is taking the form of a Yin-Yang approach, but in the right order I feel I can travel both paths if necessary to give me the best chance at the most optimum outcome. Yes, until she properly gives me the letter, I will continue to act "as-if" she is still sorting out this stuff in her head. If she does end up giving me the letter, I think I'm ready to be more that happy to bring home those empty boxes ... but she's doing ALL the packing!!

Really, its been pretty quiet in that regard lately. Not much to report other than for those who suggested that I voluteer to straighten up her nitestand for her, it won't be necessary ... as she did that on Sunday. Now there is only her addressbook and the letter on top of it sitting there.

Other than that, on Friday CAW's father was admitted in the hospital. The prognosis is not looking optimistic. His heart continues to weaken and the medication doesn't seem to be having any effect. They also found a mass on his liver. They still conducting more tests, but right now he doesn't want to face surgery and everyone tense over some pretty scary possibilities.

After hearing the news, CAW figured on changing her plans for Saturday. She had an obligation to fill as sponser to her best friend's daughter at her confirmation in the morning. Since it was a large class of 82, she suggested sparing D10 from two hours of boredom, so I agreed to stay home with D10. CAW would come right home and then we would take the cake over that her friend had asked her to make for the party and then head for the hospital and miss the party.

Well Saturday morning she changed her mind, saying since her dad was going thru tests all day, she wouldn't get to see much of him anyway, so she decided to go to party. She didn't share this with me until I overheard the phone convo with D18. Afterwards, I said "Oh?" She looked suprised at my expression. I gently reminded her of the version I had last heard ... to which she just responded, "Do you want to go?" I said, "Sure". So we dropped D10 off for a sleep over Bday party and went to party. I had only met CAW's BF and H only once before socially and the rest were total strangers I've never seen before, but I took it in stride and figured it would be good practice for the day I get to meet all the DBer's that show up for the NY Tri-state gathering!

Any interest in Get-Together in NY tri-state area?

(Shameless plug)

... especially since CAW spent most of the day inside helping in the kitchen. I made sure I stayed outside and mingled. Had a really good time too.

Since we were all alone Saturday evening I tried to get a spark going , but the attempt to rekindle a fire snuffed out with a cold shoulder.

Sunday day morning, however I got sick! ... and I only had two beers the day before so it wasn't that! I ended up spending most of the day in bed. It was when I got up to have a bowl of soup for dinner in the kitchen that CAW decided to straighten up her nitestand. That letter stayed on the floor between the nitestand and the shelve all weekend up to that point, so I would have lost that bet!

Sunday nite, I felt better and at bedtime I notice CAW laying on her back without any sheets (we sleep in the nude) ... which is one of her passive signals, but I didn't deliberately didn't make any advances (didn't feel like playing only on her terms) ... but after she fell asleep I did start gettin a bit friskie ... it led to us staying up to three in the mornin.

We all use the analogy of this being a rollercoaster ride, but with CAW's extreme vacillations, lately I feel more like I'm the back of bucking bull ... mechanical bull that is ... on the top notch ... ride em urban cowboy!

'til later,
KAW

#270517 05/26/04 06:44 AM
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I just noticed my omission of the last line of that last post (which I may have overdid)? but might as well play it out ...

How long I wonder ... can I continue to hold on for?

Disclaimer: Just journalling my indiscriminating thoughts in hopes it helps me sort this tangled mess in my head.

'til later,
KAW


#270518 05/26/04 06:48 AM
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Hey KAW

I like the imagery - the bucking bull, as well as the ocean liner.

The ups and downs in my case aren't quite so extreme, but are strange nonetheless. My H is extremely distant at the moment, and rather inexplicably angry at times.

I don't think it has much to do with me though,

KAW, what have you done differently just lately to make CAW sit up and notice?

Livnlearn


"The unexamined life is not worth living" - Socrates
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