Quote: I'm gonna have a big problem if she is again looking for some kind of future with him. I will state it again here, I don't think I can accept her returning to M because R with OM didn't work out. After 22 years, I'm not gonna accept second fiddle to anyone! That is what has always endeared me to her. She is the only person in my life that has ever made me feel I'm the most important person in their lives. I can forgive her for waivering as she has up to now because I had fallen short of being that person that was so important to her, but now after I made my changes, I don't feel I can not forgive her if she accepts only to come back to me because she tried but could not obtain making another, her number one man.
Clap, clap, arf, arf!
This all boils down to one word that my buddy Hud drives home with me.... COMMITMENT. That is, if the other person isn't committed, this process is tough (if not impossible).
JUST BECAUSE our spouses cannot give us what we want, need and deserve does not make us unworthy of those things. And I'll be doggoned if I'll ever play second fiddle to anyone or thing ever again.
There is something so incredibly empowering and uplifting about "getting" that notion. For the longest time, I thought that there was something wrong with me. Well, there always is, but at least I'm working on those things--as are you. A committed spouse sees the effort. An uncommitted spouse runs.
This goes back to my question on why CAW always has one foot out the door. You see that it's not a reflection of you, but her. I typically find that those people are not committed to themselves--leaving tasks unfinished, big growth opportunities with loose ends that will dangle indefinitely and as a result, they lose self confidence and self worth. (I have a really good childhood friend who could be the poster child for this sort of situation.)
KAW, I DO believe you have what it takes to be a winner. We both know that it's up to CAW and God to turn herself around, but you're going to be a winner in life no matter what happens. A winner makes things happen. A loser lets things happen.
From the posts of yours that I've read, the former applies to you--fair and square.
Keep on winning!
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
Finally catching up on your sitch....so much going on and so many wonderful, caring DB friends here reaching out and offering great insights!!
Quote: A winner makes things happen. A loser lets things happen.
Guess Betsey summed it up perfectly here for you and all of us! Take this to heart, let God come into your heart and guide you to be the winner that he created you to be.
Thanks for your continued interest and words of guidance to my post. So greatly appreciated.
Take care (((((KAW)))))
Mooka
P.S. Next time I come to NY, I will look you up, for sure!!
PnB, wonder, Betz, mooka ... thanks for being in my corner!
I have to wonder if I'm startin to lose it! I can't help lately but to think this is gettin comical!! She's been keepin that letter folded on a top of a pile of other junk on her nitestand for the last week. By her nitestand is a window, so every now and again the breeze would blow the letter onto the floor where it will stay until the next morning when I notice its been returned to the top of the heap again. When the wind isn't knocking it off, the cats (we have two) will jump up to get to the window and they tend to knock on the floor again where is stays until I see it on top of the heap again the next morning.
Well a couple of nights ago, CAW's address book and D10's school scrap book plus a bunch of other papers were added to the heap burying the letter.
This morning CAW & I passed each other on our street as I was coming home for work as she was leaving for hers. She blew me a kiss as we passed. Well, I came home to day to see the letter had made its way again to the top of the new higher heap.
I just started chuckling out loud. D10 wanted to know what was so funny. I just said I thought something was funny that's all. Could I be gonna bonkers here!
Sure enough one of the cats knocked it off again this morning. This time it fell to the side in a sliver of space between her nitestand and a bookshelf. Who wants to make a wager it will be on top of the heap again tommorow morning?! Place your bets. I might as well try to get some money out of this!
He he - I doubt you'll catch dbers out on a wager so futile - of course it is going to be back on top again KAW, I wonder what she is REALLY trying to tell you? Or as was mentioned earlier, is this just an elaborate test? Ah well, you have us to entertain you with our woes, our dramas may not be so close, but they are interesting, and for the most part, the posts dont have hidden agendas Slowly
Perhaps at this point, you haven't received the letter because she is considering whether or not to give it to you. I agree with Triple J, she put alot of emotion into the letter. Would she expect you to pick it up and read it? (passive/agressive)? I wouldn't! It needs to be handed to you or put in an envelope with your name on it for you.
When you do get it, you need to let her go out the door. KAW, even my loon of a H is starting to see what he is missing by being out on his own.
If she goes, you will run a gamut of emotions. One of those (eventually) will be relief that the tension isn't right there in your face.
Have patience !
When you can't make a decision because you are torn between your heart and your head, listen to the half with the brain.
I feel for you buddy, but I think you know what is going on in her chess game.
The letter seems to be the one they tell us to write to get our feelings out, but never send. However, instead of ripping it up, she wants you to find it so that she is absolved of initiating the final action.
So basically, you have been left to ponder your own next move in light of W's longtsanding ambivlance about the M. If I were you, I'd go back to JamesJohn's post about the LRT really being the ongoing technique. While our hopefulness and faith is what keeps us going, it seems that this hope seduces us into state of perpetual vulnerability and pain. While mutual vulnerability and openess may be a key ingredient to a working marriage, it is a crushing enemy when our spouses want out.
If love is truly a decision--as we contend--I think we MUST be able to detach to a point where we truly do not allow the waivering spouse to control our general outlook and can look past the end of the R. If the spouse comes back with a TRUE commitment to make the M work, THEN we can DECIDE to come back to the M and work to rebuild the R.
Obviously, this is not easy and I could be wrong, but your W never appeared committed to a specific plan to get your M back on track. And without such a commitment amd plan--you are at the complete mercy of her whims and ever-changing feelings.
Time and again I have told myself that even if my W says she will not pursue a D, things will never get better unless we engage in a strict C regimen where both of us acknowledge the hard work and possible pain ahead--but decide this is what we want to do together.
Anyway, be good. It looks like we're drawing some interest for a NY-Metro get together, but I would consider 10 people critical mass. And nothing precludes us from meeting in Peekskill one night. Any plans for next week?
I know I heard the words from H, that he wanted the marriage, but he would not commit to really working on it. Even C couldn't help. You have to have honesty there, and that is very hard for some people.
I'm sure you are suppose to find the letter then bring the subject up. You have to make that decision yourself. It's a tough decision, too.
When you can't make a decision because you are torn between your heart and your head, listen to the half with the brain.
Hey..Kaw..I just sent you an email..but thought I would visit here..wow alot of new friends..new advice...I like what merrick said about really committing to a m..so true the other s has to want to make it work...and I am living proof that it can work, even after a sep..and talk of d!!!
Will check in later..mean time, take care of yourself
KAW, I think I know some of what you are feeling. It was maybe a month ago, by genuine accident (S9 needed a new notebook for school so I pulled one off the bookshelf), I found a journal entry my W had made, "I just ended my fifth affair on my husband .... I just want out of this fake marriage....".
I still get upset when I let myself think about the entry, but I have to remind myself that Journaling IS THERAPEUTIC. By writing confusing, emotional and complicated thoughts down on paper, it helps define them into manageable words. Not always 100% accurate, but manageable. Journaling also captures a moment in time and allows us to move past it, but in this case CAW has to WANT to move past it.
I think her comment about running into a brick wall is valuable insight for you to examine your DBing efforts. Why do you think W feels she is running into a brick wall?
I think leaving the letter where it can be found, but not actually giving it to you is just reflective of her indecision and confusion. DON'T PLAY HER GAME.
In wrestling, each opponent will have different style, and the loser is usually the wrestler that trys to react to their opponents style instead of maintaining their own. Same thing in chess - if your moves are in reaction to your opponent instead of in support of your own overall goal, you will lose. This doesn't mean ignore the other player, just don't change your overall game plan when they make a move.
Betsey 
Slowly