Catching up your update there and a few things struck me:
Quote: Actually, I've been a experiencing a swelling of anger and while CAW does not seem to have noticed, I feel that it is affecting my actions some, even though I'm trying not to let it.
Sounds like great DBing if she doesn't notice this. But I have fallen into this also, getting angry and frustrated about things that she MIGHT be thinking. There have been some things that my W has done that have made me angry and my anger has swelled, but it is best to use a different channel to express that anger and not the old way of "in your face" screaming. Thank God for my heavy bag!
While I have never mentioned this before, ever since the "dark" times, one of my triggers is whenever she thinks I'm walking out of the room she is in, she'll ask, "Are you leaving me?" or whenever she feels the onset of a panic attack, she'll plead. "Don't leave me!" It just makes my skin crawl every time I hear that it like that!!! What pops into my head EVERY time is ... "This woman has been pondering, scheming to leave me in a very long term way for over two years and she has the nerve to demand I don't leave the room!" For a while I was able to just dismiss it and replace it with "Well at least for tonite she wants to be with me." ... with the hope that each time she says it will fortify ... "Yes, I really want to be with this guy." However, lately, with the hints always popping up that she is still continuing to scheme an excape, now when I hear it, I can now feel the anger behind my thoughts and it doesn't release so easily now. I still try not to react in any way while feeling this way, but I wonder if any of it pops out in any way. CAW hasn't given any hints that it does.
Quote:
Quote: I guess I too am asking the same questions CAW is ... "Is there something better out there I can go for? Do I risk everthing I have to obtain it?"
Have we or have we not all asked ourselves this question at one time or another? And it is usually after all the initial pain and anger goes away. I think this is a byproduct of detachment, where we detached from our outcomes so much, that we think whether what we are doing is worth it or not. I, for one, am struggling with this question too. But the answer will always be the same until the ink is dry, "Yes, it is worth it, even if my W and I reconcile or not." And it is because of the valuable lessons learned and becoming a man that I can be proud of.
Upon to this point for me it more or less always been a rhetorical question. On not taken very seriously, since I was playing the role of being that lighthouse I mentioned to you. Not it doesn't seem so outlandish. Maybe its because my lightbulb is getting dim upstairs.
Quote:
Quote: to walk away from that love after 23 years would make me feel like a failure? Right or wrong, it is how I would feel? How would that make me happy?
Its one of the hardest pills to swallow for me too, and I have only been M'd for 8 years. My love for my W will never die. I care for her and hope to the high heavens that nothing happens to her. I don't need a piece of paper to tell me that. My heart will always contain love for my W, even if we D. So, if we D, I don't consider it failure on my part, but the love between us wasn't strong enough to keep each other in our lives as H and W. And even though my D procs are coming to a close, all the nasty things said and done, and I almost at the finish line, I will still love this person, because I chose to spend a little of my precious life with her.
I have a strong belief that at some point in time CAW is gonna realize the choices that makes her WA were a mistake and if that occurs after we have moved on, it will end up being tragic. I can't help but think how my actions had started her down this road. All of this was totally preventable ... hence my sense of failure. Something I'm gonna have to learn to live with...
... but may greatest hope at this point is that CAW will come to this realization sooner than later.
Lunch break is over ... Andy & Sue, hope to get back soon to comment ...
Your posts are sure full of some heavy duty thinking here. This limbo thing is ridiculously difficult, huh?
But you do have the options. Only you can know what option to choose and how you'll feel about it, what you can live with, etc. I'm here myself in some ways. They are hard choices.
I know it doesn't help the feelings, but I for one would suggest that you are anything but a failure, no matter which option you choose. I've been married 10 years and I too feel like that relationship is such a deep part of me, and I feel deep love for the man that I married and a real and visceral devotion to what we took on together. I have no doubt what kind of life we could have even now. But I can't make him decide to contribute to an honest and adult relationship, either. That is the choice they make.
Triple J wrote:
Quote: But I have fallen into this also, getting angry and frustrated about things that she MIGHT be thinking.
We've all been here I am sure. But we are not in their heads... and have to work at remembering that our assumptions about what they might be thinking are nothing but fabrications in our own minds. We control that.
My H and I are in part where we are because of his anger and feelings over things he imagined that I might be thinking... none of which were even close to the truth when he finally confronted me with them. Don't fall into this trap, guys. And if you do, crawl out fast!
p.s. My two cents here, KAW, and I mean it gently and respectfully. Don't read the journals or letters or anything else. Just don't go there.
Quote: I have a strong belief that at some point in time CAW is gonna realize the choices that makes her WA were a mistake and if that occurs after we have moved on, it will end up being tragic. I can't help but think how my actions had started her down this road. All of this was totally preventable ... hence my sense of failure. Something I'm gonna have to learn to live with...
... but may greatest hope at this point is that CAW will come to this realization sooner than later.
And mine, too, KAW, for your sitch, and mine, and dozens of others.
Somehow, you have to forgive yourself for the part you played. Stop living it over, but instead, allow it to make you grow and change. And that is all. Something I read said to ask the Lord for forgiveness and then you must forgive yourself... otherwise, you somehow make yourself more important than the Lord, cause if he forgives you, who are you not to?
You are a marvelous human being. It is so evident in your posts and your willingness to give to others here on the bb. Remember that, put that in your heart. Heal yourself.
Stop wondering what CAW is going to do at some point down the road. The reason the future looks so dark is that the Lord only gives you the light to illuminate the step you are taking NOW. Be in that moment. Savor it.
Hang in there.
Relax. Appreciate. Be calm. Laugh. Enjoy. Be secure. Be loving. Be loved. Don't personalize. Don't ASSume. Accept. Be grateful.
Quote: Your posts are sure full of some heavy duty thinking here.
Enough to make my head ache ... when I get in this kind of funk, then I also tend to withdraw and neglect my thread.
The last two weeks haven't been very good and it culminated with last Wednesday getting to a point where I haven't reached before. While I have no desire right now to go into the details, I got to the point where I scrutinized for most of the day whether I should call it quits and start moving forward with arrangements to break away from CAW. Even contemplated whether I should take steps to initiate the D. As the hours went on, I noticed I felt different than prior explorations of such possibilities. There was no nausea in the pit of my stomach. No weakness in the knees like all the times before. No longer any great sense of loss. It was strange ... I never thought I would feel this way ... that I could actually accept it might be better if we did part ways.
It seems like a radical turnaround, but I guess I've been heading in this direction for quite sometime.
Andy, Sue, Wonder, Holdingon ... thanks for the kind and thoughtful words ... they help in countering that maybe I'm going off the deep end...
Quote: Enough to make my head ache ... when I get in this kind of funk, then I also tend to withdraw and neglect my thread.
Boy, ain't THAT the truth!
I'm not here to offer advice, friend. You have so much wisdom and knowledge that I'd be preaching to the choir.
I'm just wondering, though, why it appears that CAW always has a bag packed at the door? Ironically, I was accused of this a couple times in MC as well. I can honestly say that my fear of being abandoned was taking hold and I felt the need to run away before he did.
UGH. My sister asked me when Mr. W. moved out, "Are you sure you're not just pissed because he did it first?"
Anyway, it seems like CAW has some abandonment issues of her own... your sharing her clingy remarks when you walk out of a room pretty much nail this one home... I'm curious to know why you think she might feel that way with you?
After being married for so long, it would seem as though she should KNOW you don't walk out?
I dunno. Just want to pop in and say hello and say thanks for all the light you shed out here for the rest of us.
Betsey
"There are only 2 ways to live your life. One is as though nothing is a miracle. The other is as though everything is a miracle."
sage said it best a few weeks ago about us all being on a certain time line - so i wont get into the logistics of why you are now at this point in your journey
all i can say kaw is that NO ONE could ever blame you, even yourself, for not giving your marriage it's best shot. you have been a master worker when it comes to the db philosophy - i think you are beginning to realize that and that my friend is not a bad thing.
please tho, do me this one favor, whatever decisions you happen to make on this journey, don't neglect coming here to journal. your journey is important to many people - how you arrived here is important, and where your going is especially important
Just want you to know I'm thinking of you and sending good vibrations.
Maybe you're tired of making lemonade? Leave the lemons on the table with the sourpuss and come dancing.
Reggae is the answer!
Well, one answer anyway. Hee hee, I just met my new doctor and she advises Hula dancing. That's what she does.
I'm in an upbeat mood. Had a wonderful lunch on Saturday with Ellie and Pam from the bb.
It was great to meet face to face -- they are smashing divas! -- and such important friends. They've helped me on my journey more than I can ever say. So a hug in person felt just right.
Wish U coulda been there. Here's YOUR hug:
(((((((((((((((((((((((KAW)))))))))))))))))))
I relate to your situation -- not sure if I care to turn the other cheek forever, myself. I think we've learned and healed so much over time that we are finally ready to walk steady.
Wherever that takes us.
Thanks for posting updates. You always have much insight to impart.
It just makes my skin crawl every time I hear that it like that!!! 
What pops into my head EVERY time is ... "This woman has been pondering, scheming to leave me in a very long term way for over two years and she has the nerve to demand I don't leave the room!" For a while I was able to just dismiss it and replace it with "Well at least for tonite she wants to be with me." ... with the hope that each time she says it will fortify ... "Yes, I really want to be with this guy." 
However, lately, with the hints always popping up that she is still continuing to scheme an excape, now when I hear it, I can now feel the anger behind my thoughts and it doesn't release so easily now. I still try not to react in any way while feeling this way, but I wonder if any of it pops out in any way. CAW hasn't given any hints that it does.
Betsey 
