Hi Tim, I'm so happy that the C is a good fit with your wife! That is great. Hope a lot of good comes out of it.
You know, I wanted to set forth an idea for ya. It seems like you are a passenger in your marriage. Not a pilot or even a co-pilot but some guy in the back seat who goes where the vehicle is going.
Regarding the kids, well, they are YOUR kids too. What is stopping you from sitting the W down and saying "You know, I think it is good that we have given them so much but I am ready for them to learn some independence. Starting tomorrow, I am teaching DD20 to drive. Then I will look into a used car for her and her brother to share." Etc. If a situation is going on in YOUR house that you don't like, then why not take the bull by the horns and encourage some change? I know that your wife is excessively controlling but, really, you don't even have to involve her. Just approach DD some time about the prospect of driving and getting some wheels. W can either be there or not.
It seems like you go along with her to keep the peace, but at what price? Why does it seem like it would be easier for you to end the entire marriage than to stand up to her and say, We are not driving the kids around any longer. Furthermore, they are now responsible for their own laundry and ironing.
Also, I think it is good to remember that women are not really attracted to men who they run roughshod over. The heroes in the romance novels are always these brash, overbearing, bossy azzholes and the heroines eat it up. NOT that you should try that approach, lol, but I think that after your W got over her initial shock of you taking charge of certain aspects of your lives, she would really react well to the change.
Once again, my enthusiasm got the better of me. It's hard to explain why the chapter in Passionate Marriage rang a bell with me. The book IS extremely "heady" and I can't do it justice here. The example case reminded me of my R and explained quite a few of the dynamics that we are experiencing. I'll buy the book soon though it's exhausting to read.
I'm in Dallas now at my folks. Yesterday I bought Gottman's "The Relationship Cure" off the Apple Music Store and put it in my iPod. I listened to about 3 hours of it and it really explained a lot to me. You see, reading Passionate Marriage showed me an example of "cracking" the wife to "open up " and get "real". However, the Relationship Cure explains everything about communication and was excellent in covering all types of relationships including those with my D5 and co-workers. I had at least 2 breakthroughs while listening to this. 1. I saw how MY communication skills have affected us and realize that I have a LOT of work to do on myself. 2. I realized that my C could approach us from the "communication" angle instead of trying to crack my W. So Corri...you are absolutely right...I should take my W with me monday, let the C do her thing, and just see what *WE* think afterwards. This is the first time I've read something that made me want to be really kind and compassionate to my W versus "bringing down thy word from on high".
Seriously, listening to the Relationship Cure gave me a good dose of hard medicine that I needed. My W should listen to it too because of her "mean spirited" communication style. We're both at fault and could stand to improve this area of our R. I used some of the techniques with my traditionally stoic mom today and immediately saw her (trying to) open up a little more and get real. I then used some of the techniques with my W and we seem to be having a really nice time together.
Anyway, I hate being a "book freak" and request that you slap me if I quote an authors to boost a position. I do find that books force me to introspect better and I'm starting to see the difference between the "pop" psychologists and the "real" ones.
What's really interesting is that my journey started with an examination of a lack of sex. Then I discovered a broader problem of "relationship needs" (LLs), then I saw that there might be some extremely deep issues in my W which no amount of LLs will fix (remember my post about the fact that LLs don't work on a spouse that doesn't like you), and now I see that it might be a much simpler case of communication which I have been clinically diagnosed in '95 as having an impaired sense of "non verbal" communication. So yep...it's all my fault....just kidding....um...not really. In other words, I'm working my way down the ladder to the lower rungs...the fundamentals like communication.
I've also decided to simply "back off" on pressuring my W to do *anything* because I'm obviously still in the "information gathering" phase. It's simply too early to start the "real" repair and my efforts will only annoy my W right now. I will say that I'm on the verge of "seeing" the entire recovery process. Being able to visualize it will be key to my sanity. I'm blabbing...sorry. Anyway, this is the first time I've felt optimistic without ANY help from my W. Granted, she will need to do some work on herself too, but maybe the C can just be a coach who gains both of our trust and holds us accountable instead of forcing me to. Mmmmmm....that would be nice. I hate being a cop.
Anywhere is walking distance if you have the time
-Steven Wright
Quote: It seems like you are a passenger in your marriage. Not a pilot or even a co-pilot but some guy in the back seat who goes where the vehicle is going.
Hp, I would say that's an accurate description of a LOT of my M, but I think in recent years I've increasingly tried to take the helm. However, she's slow to respond...
Quote: What is stopping you from sitting the W down and saying "You know, I think it is good that we have given them so much but I am ready for them to learn some independence. Starting tomorrow, I am teaching DD20 to drive. Then I will look into a used car for her and her brother to share." Etc.
Good points, already thought of. Some facts:
1. DD20 did Driver's Ed last year, and would have her permanent license already if not for scheduling and school conflicts. Will get permanent license within the next month or two.
2. S18 has begun Driver's Ed, and will have his license by next year (they have graduated licensing here).
3. A second car is definitely on the "must have" list, unfortunately no funding available yet, not to mention insurance costs. Remember I am sole provider, and just marginally making it at the moment. This is a VERY expensive place to live.
Quote: ...Furthermore, they are now responsible for their own laundry and ironing.
...
Gawd, I'd love to get to that place. Just this evening when I got home I once again brought this up. W was telling me about her C session, and how I cannot expect instant improvement, because she still has to "keep up" with all the housework, in addition to figuring out herself and us. I pointed out that certain tasks that seem to be weighing her down could be shared, but she's not having any of it. She just dismisses the possibility that anyone could help her in any meaningful way with these things. The only thing she will stipulate is that she will be taking the baskets of clean laundry (that doesn't need ironing) and dumping them on peoples' beds, and they will then be responsible for folding and putting it away.
At this very moment, W and DD20 are having a set-to over DD20's desire to go out drinking. Not sure if it's tonight or tomorrow night. Tonight I think. W is VERY upset right now. Seems like this kind of thing is getting rather frequent, and I will have to talk with W about maybe giving DD20 a bit more slack, and expecting her to get herself there and back. But of course, W will not agree, because when DD20 is out, she can't sleep anyway. Honestly, she just drives herself (and the rest of us) crazy with this sh!t.
So that's a bit more about my life and welcome to it...
What about making part of the car purchase and insurance the kids' responsibility, since they will be the ones to benefit from it? Do either of them have part time jobs?
I have to tell you that at 20, I was completely independent of my parents. I did not get kicked out or any such thing, I still have a loving relationship with my parents. But I wanted my independence, it felt GOOD to me. I fear that your kids might be missing out on the enormous confidence boost that comes with accomplishment. If your W is the only "competent" one in the family, then what is that teaching them?
Regarding the finances to buy the second car, I hear ya! Boy do I hear you...we live off one income here also. It is not a terribly expensive place to live but any time you have a family of four (almost 5) living off one paycheck, times are going to be tiiiiiight. I am now a master at frugality, lol.
Yeah, got W calmed down. When I went upstairs, DD20 had already stormed off to her room to calm down, and W was doing the dishes. Fortunately, she was just starting the job, so I got to give her lots of help... I helped organize and tidy things so the washing could start, then I dried and put away just as fast as she washed, so there was never more than two things in the drying rack at a time. While we were doing that, I was talking to her about the whole sitch with the kids, and esp. how DD20 is at an age where it is NORMAL and NATURAL for her to be pulling away from the family, and how at the VERY least, W needs to get a grip and not react with so much anger when DD20 pulls these stunts. Just so you know, DD20 went out last weekend, stayed out till after 2:00, and was hung-over the next morning. The hangover DID have other consequences also, because DD20 was cantoring at church that Sunday (being a solo song leader). Bcuz of the h.o., she didn't do such a good job (she's one of the best singers in the church, usually). So THIS weekend (esp. with this being Holy Thursday, and we were at mass tonight, and tomorrow is Good Friday and she's cantoring again), she doesn't NEED to go out. Add to that all the family that are coming this weekend. So this was just a last-minute grandstand play by DD20, and W was right in calling a halt to it, I just pointed out that she didn't have to get so bent out of shape about it.
Then, I think I finally made a point. As we were discussing the above, I was saying how DD20 (and also the other two) need to start being more self-sufficient. W says "Yeah, I bent over backwards to wash her sweaters for her..." (now, DD20 ONLY buys sweaters that require special hand-washing and lay-to-dry care), so I finally got W to say "Okay, DD20 should do her own sweaters from now on..."
So maybe things are looking up. I don't see a resolution anytime soon to the transportation problem, but we'll see what happens when at least DD20 has her license. Thing is, if we get a 2nd car, and she's more than an OCCASIONAL driver on it, the insurance will go THROUGH the ROOF, and yes, both she and S18 have part-time jobs, but they cannot work during the school year, and every penny they make (okay, not EVERY penny, but close) goes to their tuition. I know I sound like I'm just making excuses, but at least to me it does seem insoluble for the time being... just something to put up with until we get some more money coming in...
Quote: Hopefully the C gave her some exercises to work on before their next meeting.
Well, I don't know about exercises, but she did give W a bit of a reading list, and some other suggestions. I haven't seen the book list, but W did say one of the books on it is Divorce Busting. When she said that, I said "Oh, by Michele Weiner-Davis!" W then said "Why, what else did she write?" Hmmmmm.... Let me see... gotta think on this one... (sigh) Guys, you need to understand that W was the one, early last year, who found TSSM and showed it to me! This was while we were still seeing our last MC, and we'd been working on this SSM issue for months already. As soon as W showed me the synopsis online, I ordered the book and read it, and of course it led me here. Much history followed. So I just answered W's question: "She wrote TSSM?" No, it wasn't TOO facetious or eye-rolling...
Anyway, so now there are a bunch MORE books in the house (from the library). Last night W was reading yet another meno-book. Also apparently the C suggested W join a local meno support group. So it seems that the focus so far is still the meno thing, although from what I can see the physical effects are very minor and easily handled, at least the ones W is complaining about. W still has not bought any suppliments or vitamins, although I think now she'll wait, as C also suggested she see a local naturopath. Not sure exactly what will result from that. I think W is hoping there will be some "magic pill", but a NATURAL one, that will "make her feel normal again". Sorry, honey, but I doubt it.
I'm laying low this weekend, and helping out all I can - it's a big time because of all the people coming. MIL/FIL arrive tomorrow, the rest on Sunday. Of course, stress aside, in-laws in the house automatically means "no cooze for youze" anyway. But next week when it's all over, I'm going to say to W that I need to be more than just a bystander here... I need to be part of the process. Even though a lot of the things she needs to do are in the "self-discovery" category, I'm sure there are things I can do to help things progress, and I need to be doing those things, and to an extent, SHE will need to let me know what those things are. "Nothing" is not an acceptable response at this point. I also plan to let her know that I need regular dialog with her on how things ARE going, what the plan is, how to measure progress, etc. Not to pressure her, or check up on her, but to help make sure that we ARE making progress, so course corrections can be made if we're not. But that's next week... for this weekend, there will just be a lot of patience...
The following is the result of one of the exercises in Dr. Phil's book Relationship Rescue. I am working through the exercises, in the hope of discovering something I don't already know (no real luck so far). The second exercise is something called the Relationship Health Profile. There are 62 statements, and you label each one either True or False. If you mark an even-numbered statement True, it counts against the health of your relationship. Same thing if you mark an odd-numbered statement False. If your overall score is above 32, (quote) "...it is likely that your relationship is in extreme danger of failing." (as in, Warning, Will Robinson... Warning...).
My score was 46.
Here are the statements that counted against the health of my marriage. I bet this will hit home with a lot of folks here. Even if I were to take out the 10 most extreme statements as being unlikely, that would still leave me in the danger zone... The statements that are stated "positively" are the even-numbered True responses, and those that are stated in the negative are the odd-numbered False responses (appropriately re-worded).
I am not satisfied with my sex life. My partner doesn't really listen to me. I don't trust my partner. I feel picked on and put down. I am not hopeful about our future. It is not easy to share my feelings. My partner does not often say "I love you". I don't feel appreciated. My partner is not there for me in hard times. My partner does not understand me. I imagine myself divorced. My relationship is not what I always dreamed of. My partner does not treat me with dignity and respect. My partner is a taker. We do not often do fun things together. I do not feel loved. We do not still have a lot of passion in our relationship. I am trapped with no escape. My partner does not think I am fun to be with. Our relationship has gotten boring. We do not enjoy going out on dates alone. We do not trust each other a great deal. We have become nothing more than roommates. I am no longer proud of my body. My partner does not respect me. My partner no longer finds me desirable. We just seem to want different things. I am not allowed to think for myself. I feel crowded by my partner. People have no idea what our relationship is really like. My partner is not open to suggestions. My partner has shut me out. My partner is not my primary source of emotional support. I feel judged and rejected by my partner. My partner does not care if I am upset or sad. My partner treats me like a child. My partner does not put our relationship ahead of all others. I'll never satisfy my partner. My partner does not want to hear my stories. I chose my partner for the wrong reasons. I don't look forward to our time together. My partner treats me like an employee. I don't win my share of disputes. I envy my frineds' relationships. My partner would not protect me if necessary. I don't feel needed by my partner.
Tim - It looks like she might be at least considering the possibility of making a little progress before her next appt.
I was just on Dr. Phil's site looking for the link to where you can take that relationship test online, and I see they are looking for show guests who are "married but not sexually confident" - here is the link in case anybody wants to go on national TV so we can see what you REALLY look like! Married But Not Sexually Confident? Dr. Phil wants YOU!
Oh, and here is the link to the relationship test. I took it a few weeks ago and got a 32, so my marriage is in the danger zone, too - though I didn't really need a test to tell me that! Relationship Health Profile Test
Johanna, 24 doesn't sound pathetic to me! I would KILL for a score that good. Remember, lower is better. However, if your score really IS that low, are you SURE you want to consider divorce? If it were me, that score might cause me to re-think things.
On the positive side... guess what??? DD20 is upstairs RIGHT NOW, and she's.... (gasp) IRONING!!! Not too sure what this means, exactly... the room is spinning... not sure if the earth is still lined up on its axis, or if the universe has suddenly begun contracting...
